rmc523 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Buick is not a luxury brand in China - it competes with Ford, VW, Honda, Toyota etc. It is GM's mid market brand. Chrysler has no name recognition and relevance in China. FCA can address the luxury market with Maserati and Alfa Romeo. Based on what? The idea is since they seem to like American brands - why Buick is successful there in the first place - so in theory, that could translate to Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) So that basically confirms Chrysler is a North America only brand. With no new products and no investments... so basically what I predicted in the other thread - it will die quietly instead of being quickly killed. 300C and Charger are on terminal life support. FCA is not going to invest in new platform to replace it so the plant will keep building the cars until the volume falls below certain point, at which time FCA can switch over to building new Jeep models. After the 300C plug is pulled (trust me... it won't last until the next FCA 5-year plan... like like the 100 and 200 didn't survive the previous 5-year plan) Chrysler will be down to just Pacifica. Durango is going away and being replaced by the 3-row Grand Cherokee (not Grand Wagoneer, which is BOF based on Ram). We know Journey is already cancelled so Dodge brand is not looking that great either. The fact that Sergio nixed a new Viper at the last minute suggests doom for the brand. Ram gets a new mid size pickup as expected. Will be interesting to see if it is based on Wrangler platform or Ram platform. But no new Promaster... which is a surprise. The van is past its sell-by date even before it came to the US market. Jeep gets new A-segment model... watch out Ford EcoSport. It will probably be based on the new Fiat Panda platform so it will be cheap... probably not for the US market but for places like South America. New 3-row Grand Cherokee spells doom for Durango. New Jeep Wangoneer should be a serious rival for Expedition and Tahoe. Edited June 4, 2018 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 With no new products and no investments... so basically what I predicted in the other thread - it will die quietly instead of being quickly killed. 300C and Charger are on terminal life support. FCA is not going to invest in new platform to replace it so the plant will keep building the cars until the volume falls below certain point, at which time FCA can switch over to building new Jeep models. After the 300C plug is pulled (trust me... it won't last until the next FCA 5-year plan... like like the 100 and 200 didn't survive the previous 5-year plan) Chrysler will be down to just Pacifica. Durango is going away and being replaced by the 3-row Grand Cherokee (not Grand Wagoneer, which is BOF based on Ram). We know Journey is already cancelled so Dodge brand is not looking that great either. The fact that Sergio nixed a new Viper at the last minute suggests doom for the brand. Based on emotions?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 With no new products and no investments... so basically what I predicted in the other thread - it will die quietly instead of being quickly killed. 300C and Charger are on terminal life support. FCA is not going to invest in new platform to replace it so the plant will keep building the cars until the volume falls below certain point, at which time FCA can switch over to building new Jeep models. After the 300C plug is pulled (trust me... it won't last until the next FCA 5-year plan... like like the 100 and 200 didn't survive the previous 5-year plan) Chrysler will be down to just Pacifica. Durango is going away and being replaced by the 3-row Grand Cherokee (not Grand Wagoneer, which is BOF based on Ram). We know Journey is already cancelled so Dodge brand is not looking that great either. The fact that Sergio nixed a new Viper at the last minute suggests doom for the brand. Ram gets a new mid size pickup as expected. Will be interesting to see if it is based on Wrangler platform or Ram platform. But no new Promaster... which is a surprise. The van is past its sell-by date even before it came to the US market. Jeep gets new A-segment model... watch out Ford EcoSport. It will probably be based on the new Fiat Panda platform so it will be cheap... probably not for the US market but for places like South America. New 3-row Grand Cherokee spells doom for Durango. New Jeep Wangoneer should be a serious rival for Expedition and Tahoe. Nixing an expensive, extremely limited sales supercar/roadster thing hardly suggests doom for a brand. Will it signal doom for Ford when GT production ends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Will it signal doom for Ford when GT production ends? No, that will be when sedan production ends 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 I believe Sergio Marchionne wants to end his career on a high note and is vague about Dodge and Chrysler because he doesn't want to be known as "that guy" who killed two brands. He's going to dilly dally on the subject even though the obvious is clear and the onus to pull the plug is on his successor. He wants to go out on a sunshine and unicorn happy note. I can see on brand surviving, but absolutely not two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) A couple things: Durango will actually also be based off the Ram along with Wagoneer / G Wagoneer. My guess is that if Dodge is up in the air (I think it will stay but not so sure about Chrysler), it may end up going to Ram (which I think would be smarter and command more sales dollars). Viper was never cancelled at the last minute. It was rumor that it was going to be built. You can't cancel something that was planned in the first place. 3 Row D Jeep may not be for US. ...and while Dodge / Chrysler may not be getting all new products, they are getting investments: https://www.allpar.com/news/2018/06/dodge-working-on-significant-upgrade-to-current-challenger-and-charger-platform-40887 Edited June 5, 2018 by Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Nixing an expensive, extremely limited sales supercar/roadster thing hardly suggests doom for a brand. Will it signal doom for Ford when GT production ends? Not when Ford sells F-150 by the train load. That is pretty obvious Dodge is different. It has 5 nameplates now and 4 of them are probably not going to survive by the time the next FCA 5 year plan comes around. If Sergio was willing to invest in a new Viper, that lends credibility to the rest of the brand that it will be around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 A couple things: Durango will actually also be based off the Ram along with Wagoneer / G Wagoneer. My guess is that if Dodge is up in the air (I think it will stay but not so sure about Chrysler), it may end up going to Ram (which I think would be smarter and command more sales dollars). Viper was never cancelled at the last minute. It was rumor that it was going to be built. You can't cancel something that was planned in the first place. 3 Row D Jeep may not be for US. ...and while Dodge / Chrysler may not be getting all new products, they are getting investments: https://www.allpar.com/news/2018/06/dodge-working-on-significant-upgrade-to-current-challenger-and-charger-platform-40887 There will be a smaller A-segment Jeep for developing markets. The Jeep presentation specifically called out India and the 4-meter Jeep - in another word, it is the Ford EcoSport competitor. The 3 row "Low D" Jeep is not for US. The presentation mentioned India again for this model. But I suspect it will also be sold in China and South America. The E-segment 3 row was Durango but now looks like it will just be Grand Cherokee. The Grand Wagoneer is based on the Ram platform but there is no indication that FCA will do a Dodge version. Just like they didn't bother with a new Journey when they did the Grand Commander. Durango moving from Grand Cherokee platform to Ram platform is plausible and has been speculated by some Dodge fans but it goes against Sergio's plan to concentrate product investments on the Jeep brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 A couple things: Durango will actually also be based off the Ram along with Wagoneer / G Wagoneer. My guess is that if Dodge is up in the air (I think it will stay but not so sure about Chrysler), it may end up going to Ram (which I think would be smarter and command more sales dollars). Viper was never cancelled at the last minute. It was rumor that it was going to be built. You can't cancel something that was planned in the first place. 3 Row D Jeep may not be for US. ...and while Dodge / Chrysler may not be getting all new products, they are getting investments: https://www.allpar.com/news/2018/06/dodge-working-on-significant-upgrade-to-current-challenger-and-charger-platform-40887 There's never a "new Viper" but "Viper replacement" in the works with a new name due to a V8 as the Viper was always V10. I believe now the 300 will stay along with Chrysler on "lighten LX" with Pacifica and the CUVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Based on what? The idea is since they seem to like American brands - why Buick is successful there in the first place - so in theory, that could translate to Chrysler. Buick is successful the same reason VW or Toyota or Hyundai is successful in China - localized products and a commitment from the parent company to invest. Being American didn't particularly help or hurt Buick. Being there early and consistently helped. FCA's version of that popular mid market Chinese brand is Jeep. It is a highly iconic American brand and one the average Chinese consumer already recognize from the days of BAIC Jeep when Cherokee was one of the 5 model of foreign cars available for sale in China. Most Chinese consumers have not heard of the Chrysler name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 If FCA isnt going to build it themselves like they claimed when they cancelled the 200 and Dart, whos going to build it? Could they do it in Brampton after all? IMO probably say the Detroit Jefferson N. plant (aka Grand Cherokee plant) since Durango will be Ram based and that's the only other FCA/US plant that can do unibody/rwd. Also a rwd Journey replacement is on the way for Dodge so probably it would made in Detroit too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 Remember, the product investment outlay is 75% / 25%. 75% to the global brands and 25% to the geographically localized brands (Dodge / Chrysler / Fiat). Just because the majority of investment is going to the global brands does not mean nothing is going to the localized brands. The presentation was geared towards the global brands, however that does not preclude the updates and new vehicles you will see for the localized brands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Not when Ford sells F-150 by the train load. That is pretty obvious Dodge is different. It has 5 nameplates now and 4 of them are probably not going to survive by the time the next FCA 5 year plan comes around. If Sergio was willing to invest in a new Viper, that lends credibility to the rest of the brand that it will be around. I view it more as why waste resources on a pet project vehicle when there are clearly other models that need the investment more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I view it more as why waste resources on a pet project vehicle when there are clearly other models that need the investment more. I thought Sergio, as crazy as he is, would still be smart enough to know that. If this new Viper does exist after all, that just shows that the priorities in the Dodge brand are completely backwards. Eventually theyre going to need more than just vroom car go fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Buick is popular in China is because of History of the brand there, it has nothing to do with it being american, to the Chinese it is a Chinese car. The father of modern China had one, the first car in the forbidden city was a Buick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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