silvrsvt Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 This explains why Ford is getting out of the car game and others will follow suit- 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Ford's SUV's don't look healthy either. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Ford's SUV's don't look healthy either. That's true. Ford brand SUVs other than Expedition and Edge are old designs that fall short of most competitors. Similar to the situation with Ford's sedans. However, Ford still has a decent reputation with SUVs. Also, the sales decline with Ford SUVs is a lot less severe than with its sedans. So while sedans in the U.S. market are a lost cause for Ford, the problems with its SUVs are fixable. Ford said it will devote resources to improving its SUVs. By getting rid of the sedans, they will be in a better position to do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) The new Edge and Nautilus can't get here fast enough. It should be here late Fall I think. When do you think we'll see the NG Explorer? I thought we would have seen something by now since we have already seen the Aviator. This along with the new Bronco and mini whatever it is, should help out a lot. Edited May 22, 2018 by jcartwright99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 The Subaru Crosstek sales are impressive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Ford in general - Ouch! Just haven't done enough to stay on the young active buyer shopping list. Now they have to completely re-vamp the line-up...but history shows they take too long and by the time something is shown for next year's production the competition has inventory of appealing vehicles on the lot and Ford is again too late to the party. Wouldn't surprise me if Jeep has the Wrangler Pickup and Toyota has a new Wrangler competitor available to buy before one can walk in and purchase a Bronco. And by that I mean choosing from a wide variety of Bronco's not just fully loaded un-affordable ones. And what will it take to steal customers from Subaru Crosstrek? A "Focus Active" three years out? It will have to be 5x better than the Crosstrek to even be considered on the list. Sorry for the rant, but sometimes you just have to admit when things suck. Sure they are reporting profits 'cause F-150's cost $50K or more. But as a full line automaker, they are in the cellar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 The new Edge and Nautilus can't get here fast enough. It should be here late Fall I think. When do you think we'll see the NG Explorer? I thought we would have seen something by now since we have already seen the Aviator. This along with the new Bronco and mini whatever it is, should help out a lot. Keep in mind, Aviator was just a "preview", not the production model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Looks like Jeep is kickin a$$! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 Wouldn't surprise me if Jeep has the Wrangler Pickup and Toyota has a new Wrangler competitor available to buy before one can walk in and purchase a Bronco. And by that I mean choosing from a wide variety of Bronco's not just fully loaded un-affordable ones. And what will it take to steal customers from Subaru Crosstrek? A "Focus Active" three years out? It will have to be 5x better than the Crosstrek to even be considered on the list. Sorry for the rant, but sometimes you just have to admit when things suck. Sure they are reporting profits 'cause F-150's cost $50K or more. But as a full line automaker, they are in the cellar. Uh the Focus Active is out next Summer, Mr. Gloom and doom. This is only a snapshot of sales for the first four months of the year vs the same time last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Keep in mind, Aviator was just a "preview", not the production model. I thought it was roughly 95% production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I thought it was roughly 95% production? Yes, but just pointing out that we haven't seen the production Aviator yet, so we wouldn't necessarily have seen anything on Explorer yet either. They (rightly) chose to give Aviator the spotlight for a while. Word is also that Explorer's design will be more evolutionary than revolutionary, meaning there's no need for a concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Yes, but just pointing out that we haven't seen the production Aviator yet, so we wouldn't necessarily have seen anything on Explorer yet either. They (rightly) chose to give Aviator the spotlight for a while. Word is also that Explorer's design will be more evolutionary than revolutionary, meaning there's no need for a concept. All of Fords next gen vehicles will be more evolutionary than revolutionary. Look no farther than the Fiesta and Focus for evidence, and I can tell you for sure the Edge will be the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) I don't think the updated Edge or Nautilus are going to really move the needle on sales, and if Explorer is indeed a RWD SUV than it will almost certainly cost more and be less appealing to entry-level customers unless AWD is standard (see previous point). I think Explorer is going to be a great vehicle but I don't see volume changing as competition eats away at the pie, same with the NG Escape. I think the only way Ford gains sales collectively after the car cull is through Ranger, Bronco, and Maverick...followed by other products like Mach 1. I'm not sure there is an immediate path toward marketshare growth but they need to make more money on the volume they have so I think sales declines are here to stay for awhile. The other enormous problem heading their way are the competitors about to beat the aging F-Series over the head and likely slow that train down until Ford comes up with the next big thing...which isn't exactly around the corner just yet. But Ford has been here before, they've had to shrink to grow again. Edited May 22, 2018 by Assimilator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itguy09 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) Everyone's sedans are down. Honda and Toyota with all new vehicles are down (Accord) or have high incentives (Camry) to break even. Makes sense to get out of a declining business. One interesting thought that captured my mind this week was what Ford could do with Mustang. I know it may be unpopular but I had this thought: expand it into a brand and do a 4 door sports car like the Porsche Panamera (although less ugly). I'm talking a car with a legitimate back seat (not the token one of the current Mustang) and all the power and handling of the current one. I'd bet it would sell like hotcakes - many love the Mustang but it's just too impractical with that back seat for no human over the age of 10. Hell, I'm a huge Mustang fan and it took me 18 years to get back into one since it is so impractical. Ford's SUVs need help - the Escape is the same thing they brought out in 2013 and while nice, is in dire need of a redesign or refresh to address the shortcomings. I still don't know why the Bronco and Ranger are so far out - they need those yesterday. Still have no idea why people buy Jeep - junk quality and not even that great of a design. Never "got" them the last time they were really popular in the early-mid 90s. Friends that had them and when riding in them they were the typical Mopar garbage just with "fancy materials". Edited May 22, 2018 by itguy09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 The other enormous problem heading their way are the competitors about to beat the aging F-Series over the head and likely slow that train down until Ford comes up with the next big thing...which isn't exactly around the corner just yet. But Ford has been here before, they've had to shrink to grow again. Aging F series? Are you serious??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 The Subaru Crosstek sales are impressive. . It'll be interesting to see what a Focus "Activ" hatchback will do against it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Aging F series? Are you serious??? Yeah, it's a 2015 Truck against all-new trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Yeah, it's a 2015 Truck against all-new trucks. Which has been updated with a new grille, a new industry leading 10 speed tranny, a new 3.5LEB, an updated 5.0 and a brand new 3.0L diesel. It’s not due for a new model for 2 more years. And when it was brand new in 2015 it was the all new truck against older trucks. That doesn’t mean any of them are “aging” unless they’re going more than 3 years without updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Yeah, it's a 2015 Truck against all-new trucks. And up until 2017, the SD was a 1999 truck. Who cares? They are not going to redo the whole truck and the 18 just got a front end makeover which makes it look much better then the 15-17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Yeah, it's a 2015 Truck against all-new trucks. I dont think you realize how far ahead the 2015 model was versus the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) I own a 2018 F-150 so I'm pretty familiar with it by now. I appreciate the drivetrain work they've done to keep up with their cross-town rivals, but at this moment the F-Series is looking on the outdated side of the spectrum compared to the significantly more modern visual and technical overhaul of Ram and GM et.al. I know Ford will have its answer in a couple more years but in the interim it's just odd to look at the Ford as old news for the first time since the Great Recession. Ford has been taking smart advantage of their sleepy competitors but they no longer have that luxury moving forward. My point is that they are facing competition for the first time in a long time and that will definitely impact their growth, not that the F-Series is bad or outdated. Edited May 22, 2018 by Assimilator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I own a 2018 Ford F-Series, I'm pretty familiar with it by now. I appreciate the drivetrain work they've done to keep up with their cross-town rivals, but at this moment the F-Series is looking on the outdated side of the spectrum compared to the significantly more modern visual and technical overhaul of Ram and GM et.al. I know Ford will have its answer in a couple more years but in the interim it's just odd to look at the Ford as the old girl for the first time since the Great Recession. I would say that looks are subjective. Youre not going to get a brand new truck every three years, and that goes for the competition as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 The current F150 is still the best looking truck and at best the new trucks from GM and RAM are just getting even. They’re certainly not ahead. 3 year major updates are the best you’re going to see. Anything more frequent is just wasting money. F150 is the one vehicle that Ford does right in terms of refreshes and updates and it’s still class leading. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I don't think the updated Edge or Nautilus are going to really move the needle on sales, and if Explorer is indeed a RWD SUV than it will almost certainly cost more and be less appealing to entry-level customers unless AWD is standard (see previous point). I think Explorer is going to be a great vehicle but I don't see volume changing as competition eats away at the pie, same with the NG Escape. I think the only way Ford gains sales collectively after the car cull is through Ranger, Bronco, and Maverick...followed by other products like Mach 1. I'm not sure there is an immediate path toward marketshare growth but they need to make more money on the volume they have so I think sales declines are here to stay for awhile. The other enormous problem heading their way are the competitors about to beat the aging F-Series over the head and likely slow that train down until Ford comes up with the next big thing...which isn't exactly around the corner just yet. But Ford has been here before, they've had to shrink to grow again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Im with you on the Edge and Explorer comments. The 8 speed is a nice addition to the 19 Edge but there arent any other major changes. Sales have been good- the refresh should keep them from slipping too much. Im good with the C2 model being evolutionary as long as weight can be cut and fuel economy improved. The big concern to me is the Escape. Sales are down substantially and the competition is brutal. Lets hope the new model is world class. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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