Baby Escape (definitely not baby Bronco) Spied?

[2b2]

...The 3 Row Edge and Explorer are very close in size...

fwiw - from my old textfile database

__ovl____wlb____w____ht________

197.10 - 112.6 - 78.90 - 70.40 -- Explorer

192.05 - 112.2 - 75.79 - 68.27 -- Edge 3row China

[bzcat]

The 3 Row was built on CD4 so it could be assembled in China that loves 3 row SUV's and avoid the tariffs the Explorer has put on it. Ford wasn't going to try and launch local production of the Explorer in China as it would have been launching a vehicle on an old platform that at the time end was in sight. The 3 Row Edge and Explorer are very close in size, though if they add some size to the NG Explorer there could be room for some markets to have both. I suspect China will start producing on the next gen Explorer locally and the need for the China only 3 row Edge will go away. I also suspect the NG Explorer will show back up in Europe and Australia as well.

 

 

 

Ford is probably going to build Explorer in China but it is a different class size up from Edge. One is large and one is midsize. Plenty of room for both in China, or elsewhere.

[Assimilator]

It certainly looks to me like it's a couple inches shorter (wheelbase and overall), but lower to the ground and taller.

 

Capture.JPG

 

 

Not exactly a scientific measuring method.

[Harley Lover]

I got lost reading the speculation through the thread, is it possible this is the 'short C' that has been speculated/predicted here for some time?

[Assimilator]

It is the Ford Escape. Remember Ford already teased 4 SUVs at the Uncovered event (Escape, Bronco-mini, Bronco, and Explorer ST). Once you hit prototype stage like this you can start deducing this is one of those vehicles and Escape makes the only sense. It looks like the Escape and they told us something looking exactly like this was coming shortly, we don't have a bonus mystery SUV arriving before those other 4 that they wouldn't have been eager to talk about and preview.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Assimilator

[akirby]

Not exactly a scientific measuring method.

 

It’s better than whatever you’ve done. I measured the tire diameter and wheel well openings and got them as close as possible.

[akirby]

It is the Ford Escape. Remember Ford already teased 4 SUVs at the Uncovered event (Escape, Bronco-mini, Bronco, and Explorer ST). Once you hit prototype stage like this you can start deducing this is one of those vehicles and Escape makes the only sense. It looks like the Escape and they told us something looking exactly like this was coming shortly, we don't have a bonus mystery SUV arriving before those other 4 that they wouldn't have been eager to talk about and preview.

 

Not a very scientific conclusion, especially since we’ve been talking about a short C utility and Escape getting larger for quite some time while you were on vacation.

 

That is not the baby bronco and it sure doesn’t look larger than the current Escape to the naked eye.

[passis]

If the C2 platform is said to encompass from Fiestas to Edges, could this be a Fiesta crossover, replacing the Ecosport in developed markets?

The current Ecosport is getting long in the tooth and seems tied to the Ka/Figo in Brazil, India, Romania, etc.

 

 

This new Ford seems to be the size of the new Skoda Kamiq (VW T-Cross), shown just above.

Edited April 21, 2018 by passis

[jpd80]

Not a very scientific conclusion, especially since we’ve been talking about a short C utility and Escape getting larger for quite some time while you were on vacation.

 

That is not the baby bronco and it sure doesn’t look larger than the current Escape to the naked eye.

Ride height looks lower than current Escape, front looks more like Escape. Focus

If this is short C SUV, could it be a clever rework of the C-Max with new proportions?

Also consider the rear hatch shape is similar to C-Max...

Edited April 21, 2018 by jpd80

[tzach]

Is there any possibility that the NG Escape 5 seater will actually be shorter than existing and the 7 seater will be longer?

[rmc523]

Is there any possibility that the NG Escape 5 seater will actually be shorter than existing and the 7 seater will be longer?

 

Having it be shorter than the current one would be a mistake. It needs more room, not less.

[bzcat]

Is there any possibility that the NG Escape 5 seater will actually be shorter than existing and the 7 seater will be longer?

 

That would be an extremely risky strategy because Escape is already one of the smallest CUV in this class.

 

The 5 seat Escape should gain a couple of inches similar to Focus. The 7 seat Escape is a bit of an unknown right now. Grand C-Max was about the same size as current Kuga but I think Ford will make the new one bigger similar to VW Tiguan Allspace.

 

I think the confusion about the size is just the camo doing its job. Remember, we already seen the Escape mule (the photo in the OP is a prototype) and it is bigger than the current Escape by a couple of inches.

 

Remember....

 

Mule = early stage engineering buck based on the current bodywork to test various systems and size of new model (e.g. suspension, wheelbase etc)

Prototype = mid stage engineering buck with new bodywork (still subject to change)

Pre-production = late stage enginnering buck/test builds with final bodywork

 

Ford had a fleet of current Escape/Kuga mule to test the new model for a while now. So the wheelbase and size increase seems fairly baked in.

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/235946/2020-ford-escape-spy-photos/

 

Current

 

Mule

 

Prototype

Edited April 23, 2018 by bzcat

[Harley Lover]

^^

 

bzcat, that is a great photo comparison. I would point attention at the area above the cargo area in the second and third pictures. Those 2 vehicles appear to have a significantly different profile aft of the D pillar, although it could be a combination of the camo and camera angle. The hatch on the second vehicle begins much further aft than the hatch on the third vehicle (or so it appears).

[fuzzymoomoo]

^^

 

bzcat, that is a great photo comparison. I would point attention at the area above the cargo area in the second and third pictures. Those 2 vehicles appear to have a significantly different profile aft of the D pillar, although it could be a combination of the camo and camera angle. The hatch on the second vehicle begins much further aft than the hatch on the third vehicle (or so it appears).

I think thats the seam where they grafted it back together playing tricks on you.

[Deanh]

this camo shot threw me completly

[Assimilator]

The new Focus has roughly the same exterior dimensions but they lengthened the wheelbase to improve interior packaging. It's likely the new Escape is taking a similar approach so the rear overhang is shorter as the wheels are pushed closer to the corners. Since those proportions are changing, it's likely the vehicle looks smaller because the overhangs are smaller.

 

The other area that's changing quite a bit in the Escape is the cab-forward architecture which is going away. The front of the cab in the current Escape is massive with a low window sill so pulling that all back and raising the window ledge makes it look smaller.

 

The Escape also appears to be returning to its visual similitude with the Focus by adopting a lower forward leaning sporting grille along with that long hood. It will probably look a bit like the low-slung Mazda CX5. I know Ford is drawing a ton of design inspiration from Mazda who is hugely influential right now, pioneering many modern design philosophies which Ford just started adopting on the new Focus. It's a bit of a change for the Escape which had been playing around with Ford's visual dictionary, more recently trying to tone down the sleekness for something more chiseled and rugged. Looks like they are going back to the former for a bit.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Assimilator

[Harley Lover]

The new Focus has roughly the same exterior dimensions but they lengthened the wheelbase to improve interior packaging. It's likely the new Escape is taking a similar approach so the rear overhang is shorter as the wheels are pushed closer to the corners. Since those proportions are changing, it's likely the vehicle looks smaller because the overhangs are smaller.

 

Makes sense and would explain what I'm trying to describe in the previous post. I guess this should mean a much improved rear seat environment for these vehicles.

[Assimilator]

The mule seems to indicate that the Escape's wheelbase was lengthened moderately, maybe 1-2 inches. It should help some with rear seat room beyond just redesigning the hard points of the floorpan.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Assimilator

[fuzzymoomoo]

To me it looks like the wheelbase is the same but the body sits farther forward than the old model

[2b2]

The new Focus has roughly the same exterior dimensions but they lengthened the wheelbase to improve interior packaging. It's likely the new Escape is taking a similar approach so the rear overhang is shorter as the wheels are pushed closer to the corners. Since those proportions are changing, it's likely the vehicle looks smaller because the overhangs are smaller...

I wonder....

17?.? - 106.4 -- 2020 Focus sedan

178.1 - 105.9 -- current Escape

178.5 - 104.3 -- current Focus sedan

[jpd80]

The most likely outcome is a wheelbase around 2" longer which would align with competitors like Equinox.

[2b2]

187.8 - 112.5 -- Equinox 2017

183.1 - 107.3 -- Equinox 2018

[bzcat]

GM shrinking Equinox from midsize to compact was just them admitting it couldn't possibly charge midsize prices (like Ford Edge).

 

Some comparison Length / Wheelbase... note that the current Escape is either the smallest "long C" or the biggest "short C" depending on your perspective. The clear point forward here is for Ford to move Escape firmly into the "long C" segment and introduce a new "short C" to replace C-Max (i.e. the baby Bronco) which will better align with the market demand. Even a modest 2 or 3" increase in length will still make Escape one of the smallest "long C" SUV on the market.

 

[Ford Edge (7 seats) for reference 192" / 112.2"]

[Ford Edge (5 seats) for reference 188.1" / 112.2]

~Other mid size CUV roughly 190" or 4.8 -/+ meters so Edge is right in the middle

 

"Long C" 179" ~ 185" or roughly 4.6 -/+ meters

VW Tiguan Allspace (7 seats) 185.5" / 109.9

Skoda Kodiaq (7 seats) 184.9" / 109.9

Mitsubishi Outlander (7 seats) 184.8" / 105.1"

Renualt Koleos (7 seats) 183.9" / 106.5"

Buick Envision 183.7" / 108.3"

Toyota RAV4 183.5" / 104.7"

Chevy Equinox 183.1" / 107.3"

GMC Terrain 183.1" / 107.3"

Nissan Rogue (7 seats) 183" / 106.5"

Peugeot 5008 (7 seats) 182.7" / 111.8"

Jeep Cherokee 182" / 106.3"

Subaru Forester 181" / 104"

Honda CR-V (7 seats) 180.6" / 104.7"

Mazda CX-5 179.1" / 106.2"

 

[Ford Focus sedan for reference 178.5" / 104.3"]

Ford Escape 178.1" / 105.9"

[Ford Grand C-Max (7 seats) for reference 178" / 109.8"]

 

"Short C" 172"~178" or roughly 4.4 -/+ meters

Citroen C5 Aircross 177.6" / 107.5"

VW Tiguan 176.6" / 105.6"

Kia Sportage 176.4" / 105.1"

Opel Grandland X 176.3" / 105.3"

Hyundai Tucson 176.2" / 105.1"

Renault Kadjar 175.2" / 104.2"

Peugeot 3008 175.2" / 105.3"

Subaru XV Crosstrek 175.2" / 104.1"

Jeep Compass 174" / 104"

Mitsubishi Eclipse 173.4" / 105.1"

Ford C-Max 172.4" / 104.3"

Nissan Rogue Sport 172" / 104.2"

[Ford Focus hatch for reference 171.6" / 104.3]

 

 

[Ford EcoSport for reference 158.1" / 99.2"]

other B-segment CUVs typically in the 165~170" length area or roughly 4.2 -/+ meters so EcoSport is almost a foot shorter than competitors

Edited April 25, 2018 by bzcat

[rmc523]

GM shrinking Equinox from midsize to compact was just them admitting it couldn't possibly charge midsize prices (like Ford Edge).

 

Well, they're also set to launch the new "Blazer" (or whatever they're going to call it) that will slot in between Equinox and Traverse.

[Assimilator]

Chevy has the Blazer coming which is probably based on the shorter Acadia along with a stylish small Crossover which is expected to be a PHEV. Ford is adding the Maverick, Bronco, and Mach 1 BEV. I think Maverick (mini Bronco) is here to address their small car customers along with EcoSport. Remember Jeep outsells Ford on small cars now with Compass and Renegade.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Assimilator