92merc Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 A really good video on DCT vs standard transmissions. Ford is specifically mentioned, as well as Honda regarding issues with their DCT's. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/videos/what-happened-to-the-dual-clutch-transmission/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tico Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 So do any fords still have DCT in 2018? 2019 or 2020? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just the Fiesta and Focus I believe. In Europe, they changed the Focus over to the slushbox on most if not all models. But we got stuck with the DCT here. That and Europe got the 1.5 EB also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 So do any fords still have DCT in 2018? 2019 or 2020? Focus and Fiesta still do. The Fiesta is dead in North America soon (at least the US) and the next generation Focus is getting the new 8F transmission. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just the Fiesta and Focus I believe. In Europe, they changed the Focus over to the slushbox on most if not all models. But we got stuck with the DCT here. That and Europe got the 1.5 EB also. Some Euro diesels still have DCTs but they're the wet clutch variety not the dry clutch version we have here in Focus and Fiesta. The fact that they still have it in the Focus is ridiculous. Getting rid of it should have been a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) Once in gear lock up was perfected on autos the advantages of DCT Became far less noticeable plus the shift quality is more inkeeping with US buyer expectations New 2.0 diesel in Euro Edge is getting the 8-speed auto. So maybe that signals the switch away from DCT Powershift Edited March 23, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Once in gear lock up was perfected on autos the advantages of DCT Became far less noticeable plus the shift quality is more inkeeping with US buyer expectations New 2.0 diesel in Euro Edge is getting the 8-speed auto. So maybe that signals the switch away from DCT Powershift I have a friend who works in Livonia, they're gearing up to start building the 8F for the next gen Focus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I have a friend who works in Livonia, they're gearing up to start building the 8F for the next gen Focus Pun intended? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Pun intended? absolutely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 The only vehicle still with DCT in Europe are Focus the old Peugeot diesel. Once they get replaced by the EcoBlue, they will use 8F. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) So that means Fords JV with Getrag may be at an end, I cant see Ford needing those wet clutch DCTs anymore Were starting to see the delineation point for 8F at the 2.7 EB And I suspect that in vehicles like Edge that may be short term as in maybe a few years the HP EB V6 FWD/ AWD are not being shared outside North America Edited March 23, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 No mention of 8F in 19 Fusion adds weight to the suggestion that it will stay for as long as it takes for Ford NA to get to developing a replacement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 To me what is so shocking is what a disaster Ford's attempt at CVT and DCT have been ! I heard some where that the US built CVT cost Ford for over $1B to develop and tool. Plus the licensing cost was killing them on the piece cost. One big strike against the DCT (according to engineers I spoke with just before it went into production) was it was NEVER intended to go in a C-class vehicle. Strictly B-class with about a 1.5 naturally aspired engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 To me what is so shocking is what a disaster Ford's attempt at CVT and DCT have been ! I heard some where that the US built CVT cost Ford for over $1B to develop and tool. Plus the licensing cost was killing them on the piece cost. Which CVT? The only CVT I remember Ford using was in the AWD Five Hundred and Freestyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Which CVT? The only CVT I remember Ford using was in the AWD Five Hundred and Freestyle. All of the hybrids use a CVT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 All of the hybrids use a CVT. That’s an E-CVT. Not the same thing. Those have been flawless AFAIK. They may even be Aisin units. The failed CVT was developed in house IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Wrong info. Never mind... Edited March 26, 2018 by 92merc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 To me what is so shocking is what a disaster Ford's attempt at CVT and DCT have been ! I heard some where that the US built CVT cost Ford for over $1B to develop and tool. Plus the licensing cost was killing them on the piece cost. One big strike against the DCT (according to engineers I spoke with just before it went into production) was it was NEVER intended to go in a C-class vehicle. Strictly B-class with about a 1.5 naturally aspired engine. Even the dry clutch Fiesta units proved problematic, it's just a poor design that holds its own dust from linings, they run hot and eventually fails the control module attached to it. Should have always been a 6F auto or a lightweight version of the wet clutch DCT in the diesel, those are practically bullet proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) The 6F50/55 is bulletproof. 6F35 not so much. But it would have been less annoying/breakdown prone than a DPoS6, for sure. I guess we will see with the 6F15. Yes, the non hybrid CVT had a near billion dollar price tag. Its BIGGEST flaw was it wasn't properly scalable. The current 6F and the outgoing 6R families are essentially scaled up and down versions of the same trans. The CVT was designed for the NON-PIP 3.0 Duratec. Edited March 27, 2018 by YT90SC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itguy09 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Even the dry clutch Fiesta units proved problematic, it's just a poor design that holds its own dust from linings, they run hot and eventually fails the control module attached to it. How is that any different than any other stick? The clutch and bellhousing seem to share more with, say a 6 speed than anything else. And 6 speeds don't have vents for lining debris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 I guess we will see with the 6F15. So far it seems to be pretty bulletproof. Ive yet to hear of a single complaint or problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 How is that any different than any other stick? The clutch and bellhousing seem to share more with, say a 6 speed than anything else. And 6 speeds don't have vents for lining debris.They are very different animals.The clutch debris gets trapped inside the clutch housing and Causes havoc With juddering. The whole gearbox case runs so hot it eventually fails the Trans control module attached to the case. All Ford has managed to do with TSBs and reflashes is to delay the inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Fuzzy, I hope they fixed some issues with the 6F35 in the 6F15. Most of the 35's that fail, have issues later on and the stem from 3 main areas. 1. Solenoid pressure control valve in the valve body. 2. Programming creating too much torque converter clutch material debris and wear. 3. Clutch tower- which may or may not be from #2. Some will argue that the center support is a high failure rate item. It was, but isn't as much now. And pumps get replaced a lot due to the TCC valve hanging up, but again, that's all on #2. Edited March 27, 2018 by YT90SC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Fuzzy, I hope they fixed some issues with the 6F35 in the 6F15. Most of the 35's that fail, have issues later on and the stem from 3 main areas. 1. Solenoid pressure control valve in the valve body. 2. Programming creating too much torque converter clutch material debris and wear. 3. Clutch tower- which may or may not be from #2. Some will argue that the center support is a high failure rate item. It was, but isn't as much now. And pumps get replaced a lot due to the TCC valve hanging up, but again, that's all on #2. Jury is still out for sure, but in that short time Ive heard of zero issues with it so far. Perhaps someone like fordtech1 could chime in on the subject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 DCT is inherently more complex design (it has two fringging clutches!) so it costs more to design and build. Ford's decision to use it in economy cars means it was cost engineered to meet certain cost targets... and when you do that, reliability, durability, or usability tend to be sacrificed. This is exactly what we saw with Fiesta and Focus DCTs. VW also used a lot of DCTs in its cars but mostly for performance models (like GTI instead of regular Golf). They also suffered some durability issues but at least in performance oriented models, the smoothness of operation was not as big of a concern to owners... they are a lot more forgiving for strong down shifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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