Hot dang, 2019 CT6 V-sport awd revealed (4.2 V8 available)

[twintornados]

True - up until 2000 at least. There is a point when you have to throw it away and start over.

.

Closer to 2003, last re-design of chassis.....she would continue in that iteration until 2011.

[akirby]

.

Closer to 2003, last re-design of chassis.....she would continue in that iteration until 2011.

 

But by then the unibody competitors had surpassed it.

[twintornados]

 

But by then the unibody competitors had surpassed it.

.

But it's "modular" front end will live on under old F100's for decades....

[Fgts]

 

It could go into the Navigator for now.

On that note strong rumor the 4.2 will be an upgrade option over the 6.2 in the Escalade to separated it more from the Chevy/GMCs.

[jpd80]

While its a great engine, we should be under no illusion that this is GM

again copying an engine configuration from European competitors.

Why does GM feel the need to copy so closely....

[MY93SHO]

While its a great engine, we should be under no illusion that this is GM

again copying an engine configuration from European competitors.

Why does GM feel the need to copy so closely....

I think the number of "innovative" engine designs is dwindling.

[rperez817]

While its a great engine, we should be under no illusion that this is GM

again copying an engine configuration from European competitors.

Why does GM feel the need to copy so closely....

 

I think what you mean sir is that GM resumed production of DOHC V8 engines. In that sense, yes they are "copying" the engine configuration used by all leading luxury car brands. Not only from Europe, but from Japan and Korea too. But the LTA 4.2 liter engine itself is a clean sheet design engineered in-house by GM. They didn't copy anyone else's design.

 

The LTA engine fulfills an important marketing function for the Cadillac brand and for GM overall. Before this engine was introduced, since 2010 all of GM's V8 production car engines have been pushrod designs. Even though the current GM pushrod V8 engines are very well engineered, many luxury car customers consider pushrod engines "old school". Cadillac recognized that to restore its reputation as a leading luxury car brand, it needed to have a modern DOHC V8. Finally with the LTA, they do, and it promises to be as good or better than comparable DOHC V8s from competitors.

 

This should help Cadillac get closer to being "standard of the world" as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Edited March 23, 2018 by rperez817

[jpd80]

I think what you mean sir is that GM resumed production of DOHC V8 engines. In that sense, yes they are "copying" the engine configuration used by all leading luxury car brands. Not only from Europe, but from Japan and Korea too. But the LTA 4.2 liter engine itself is a clean sheet design engineered in-house by GM. They didn't copy anyone else's design.

I said copying an engine configuration not an engine design so therefore, meant copy like ATS & CTS were copies or car sizes used by European competitors

In any event Cadillac is still trying to be like its competitors not different to them

 

As a hand built engine the LTA embraces last word in current technology direction

but like North Star GM shows a perchance for racing to novelty at the exclusion

Of most of its customers. In that same situation, its not hard to imagine Ford

Making a similar engine configuration out of coyote but for the masses like

they did with the 3.5 Ecoboost - youll remember the two TT V6s locked

away in high Series Cadillac this will be no different save for maybe

An extravagant mid engined Corvette.

Edited March 23, 2018 by jpd80

[Fgts]

 

In any event Cadillac is still trying to be like....

 

As a hand built engine the LTA embraces last word in current technology direction

but like North Star GM shows a perchance for racing to novelty at the exclusion

Of most of its customers. In that same situation, its not hard to imagine Ford

Making a similar engine configuration out of coyote but for the masses like

they did with the 3.5 Ecoboost - youll remember the two TT V6s locked

away in high Series Cadillac this will be no different save for maybe

An extravagant mid engined Corvette.

The Northstar was built for racing?, that's rich... Seeing Lincoln killing off the current Continental, they too is excluding "traditional" customers. As Ford once did with the Lincoln version of the Mod motors you have to give a good reason why the extra charge over a Ford, can't just dail in luxury and go home.

[akirby]

Racing to novelty, not actual racing.

[rperez817]

The Northstar was built for racing?

 

 

Racing to novelty, not actual racing.

 

GM did build Northstar V8 based LMP race cars for ALMS and 24 Hours of LeMans. But that's not the main reason for the Northstar engine series. The Northstar LMP racing program was very short lived, active between 2000 and 2002. Main reason for Northstar was to provide production Cadillac cars modern DOHC engines that were worthy of a luxury brand. In that respect, Northstar was a big success especially in its early years (1992-1998). The engine won Ward's 10 Best Engines award in 1995, 1996, and 1997.

 

[jpd80]

Racing to novelty, not actual racing.

Correct I meant perchant not perchance

 

I saw the new GM 4.2 TTV8 Hot V as an exclusive / novelty engine

much in the same light as the recent (?) BMW with similar Configuration,

its a me too engine, surely GM could havechosen any other capacity for

that V8 but instead closely aligned its engine with the European Lux brands

 

Great car and engine, I just don understand why Cadillac

needs to be that similar to the competition........

Edited March 24, 2018 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

Seeing Lincoln killing off the current Continental

 

So far its unsubstantiated rumors-not to mention supposedly its getting suicide doors next gen

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180324/RETAIL06/180329751/lincoln-plans-suicide-doors-on-the-continental-sedan?cciid=email-autonews-blast

[Fgts]

 

So far its unsubstantiated rumors-not to mention supposedly its getting suicide doors next gen

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180324/RETAIL06/180329751/lincoln-plans-suicide-doors-on-the-continental-sedan?cciid=email-autonews-blast

In its current form I meant Lincoln is basing the Continental on CD6 points to Ford is making a rwd competitior to Cadillac rather then another forgettable fwd, family-car based luxury sedan that JP80 thinks that's all Cadillac buyers want outside of limo/taxi and funeral companies.

[akirby]

In its current form I meant Lincoln is basing the Continental on CD6 points to Ford is making a rwd competitior to Cadillac rather then another forgettable fwd, family-car based luxury sedan that JP80 thinks that's all Cadillac buyers want outside of limo/taxi and funeral companies.

You mean like the MKZ which handily outsells the CTS?

[rperez817]

You mean like the MKZ which handily outsells the CTS?

 

Lincoln MKZ doesn't compete with Cadillac CTS. Closest GM competitor to MKZ is Buick LaCrosse.

 

MKZ outpaced LaCrosse sales in calendar year 2017 (27,387 for MKZ and 20,161 for LaCrosse). LaCrosse has regained sales momentum so far in 2018 though. For the first two months in 2018 LaCrosse sales are almost double that of MKZ (4,995 for LaCrosse and 2,556 for MKZ).

[jpd80]

In its current form I meant Lincoln is basing the Continental on CD6 points to Ford is making a rwd competitior to Cadillac rather then another forgettable fwd, family-car based luxury sedan that JP80 thinks that's all Cadillac buyers want outside of limo/taxi and funeral companies.

I never said or implied any of that.

 

my questions is why does Cadillac feel the need to copy that engine configuration so closely.

obviously copying thta engine design was part of a tactic to align Cadillac with the Germans.

My point is why do that, why not do something different that sets them apart form the Gremans?

 

I never mentioned Continental or any other FWD car, so im at a complete loss as to where

you drew that connection- not copying the Germans does not infer using FWD

.

I could have simply meant where was the 6.2 V8 option in CT6- a point of differentiation?

Edited March 27, 2018 by jpd80

[rperez817]

my questions is why does Cadillac feel the need to copy that engine configuration so closely.

obviously copying thta engine design was part of a tactic to align Cadillac with the Germans.

My point is why do that, why not do something different that sets them apart form the Gremans?

 

 

The "hot vee" configuration used in Cadillac LTA, BMW N63, and Mercedes-Benz AMG V8 engines has many engineering advantages. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a12778835/hot-v-turbocharged-engines-explained/

 

Cadillac didn't copy the BMW or Mercedes-Benz designs. The engineering effort was GM's own. Plus the Cadillac engine has unique features not used in the N63 and AMG engines like Active Fuel Management and variable pressure oiling system.

 

Just like Cadillac's RWD sedans themselves, especially CT6, the LTA engine delivers the technological sophistication expected of a true luxury brand while also having character that's uniquely Cadillac.

[akirby]

Lincoln MKZ doesn't compete with Cadillac CTS. Closest GM competitor to MKZ is Buick LaCrosse.

 

Of course it does. LaCrosse doesn’t offer a 400 hp engine or adaptive suspension or Black Label designs and materials.

 

And it is most appropriate in response to Fgts’ statement about the type of cars that people are or are not buying.

[Fgts]

Of course it does. LaCrosse doesnt offer a 400 hp engine or adaptive suspension or Black Label designs and materials.

 

And it is most appropriate in response to Fgts statement about the type of cars that people are or are not buying.

So why is Ford killing the fwd Continental for a rwd replacement?, plus I wasn't even talking about the MKZ.

[rperez817]

Of course it does. LaCrosse doesn’t offer a 400 hp engine or adaptive suspension or Black Label designs and materials.

 

LaCrosse and MKZ are both entry luxury FWD midsize sedans. MKZ has a more powerful optional engine with 400 hp as you mentioned. But LaCrosse has a more powerful standard engine with 304 hp. Also, Buick now has a top trim Avenir version of LaCrosse with unique designs and materials similar to MKZ Black Label. http://www.buick.com/avenir

 

Buick LaCrosse does offer adaptive suspension. GM says, "Electronically controlled Continuous Damping Control active suspension with selectable Touring and Sport modes is available on Essence and Premium trims". http://media.buick.com/media/us/en/buick/vehicles/lacrosse/2018.html

 

Cadillac CTS is in a different category. It's a true luxury RWD midsize sedan that competes with Jaguar XF, BMW 5-Series, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Lexus GS, etc.

Edited March 27, 2018 by rperez817

[rmc523]

So why is Ford killing the fwd Continental for a rwd replacement?, plus I wasn't even talking about the MKZ.

 

They couldn't build something that didn't exist - there was no RWD platform to put it on at the time. So it was CD4 or nothing.

[akirby]

Not worth arguing about this again.

 

GM good. Ford bad. Got it. Move on.

[jpd80]

 

LaCrosse and MKZ are both entry luxury FWD midsize sedans. MKZ has a more powerful optional engine with 400 hp as you mentioned. But LaCrosse has a more powerful standard engine with 304 hp. Also, Buick now has a top trim Avenir version of LaCrosse with unique designs and materials similar to MKZ Black Label. http://www.buick.com/avenir

 

Buick LaCrosse does offer adaptive suspension. GM says, "Electronically controlled Continuous Damping Control active suspension with selectable Touring and Sport modes is available on Essence and Premium trims". http://media.buick.com/media/us/en/buick/vehicles/lacrosse/2018.html

 

Cadillac CTS is in a different category. It's a true luxury RWD midsize sedan that competes with Jaguar XF, BMW 5-Series, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Lexus GS, etc.

You're comparing the cars that suits your argument, not the car that actually compete in the same class size.

 

The Regal which is the same size as MKZ starts at a much lower price than the MKZ and only approaches

price and equipment levels in the uper trim levels but still doesn't offer a TTV6

 

I get very tired of this "because it's a RWD car it's in a different category", it's not and again

you're picking and choosing vehicles that suits your argument. For most of the comparison,

a TTV6 AWD MKZ stacks up pretty well against the CTS this side of $60K,.

 

 

The "hot vee" configuration used in Cadillac LTA, BMW N63, and Mercedes-Benz AMG V8 engines has many engineering advantages. https://www.roadandt...ines-explained/

Cadillac didn't copy the BMW or Mercedes-Benz designs. The engineering effort was GM's own. Plus the Cadillac engine has unique features not used in the N63 and AMG engines like Active Fuel Management and variable pressure oiling system.

They copied the configuration, not the design.

Even the capacity is very similar to other marques, there was an opportunity to take that configuration and say,

make it 4.6 or 5.0 liters but GMdidn't do that.

So why not add that extra differentiation as well as superior power and torque and become a leader, not a follower?

Just like Cadillac's RWD sedans themselves, especially CT6, the LTA engine delivers the technological sophistication expected of a true luxury brand while also having character that's uniquely Cadillac.

I think you're confusing Performance with Luxury Performance which is an even smaller subset of those Luxury buyers.

GM is restricting this engine to specific high end trim levels tells us all we need to know, it's a beautiful hand built engine

but one that will be limited to a handful of sales.

Edited March 27, 2018 by jpd80

[jpd80]

So why is Ford killing the fwd Continental for a rwd replacement?, plus I wasn't even talking about the MKZ.

It maybe going to RWD eventually but that replacement is nowhere near the doorstep yet,

by my estimations, it could still be at least two or even three years away.

 

The frustrating part for me is that Sigma CTS was perfect size an price range for Cadillac customers,

had GM not divided that segment into ATS and CTS and kept prices reasonable, I'm sure that sales of the

Alpha CTS would have been much better. Iknow you share this frustration because Alpha could have been

a much bigger hit than it was.

 

MKZ shows us Ford engineers would love a good RWD chassis to play with, they have the engines to make

a MKZ sized car really fly but it needs better dynamics that only a RWD architecture would bring. I'm hoping

that RWD CD6 extends to mid sized Car and Utilities - maybe that's too much for us to hope for right now..

 

Cadillac is fearless to the point of intrepid with its delivery of leading edge technology that maybe sufficient

volumes of its buyers fail to appreciate at the prices charged.

 

Conversely, Lincoln spends almost as much trying to change ersatz platform vehicles into lux vehicles and again,

charges hefty premiums for anything that looks interesting to its Lux buyers. I hope that someday, these two will

meet in the middle and get the right balance of product, performance, chassis dynamics and affordability.

Edited March 27, 2018 by jpd80