silvrsvt Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 uh oh... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/technology/uber-driverless-fatality.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 The car did have a 'human safety driver' in it at the time, and the pedestrian was outside the crosswalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 heres my issue....my computer crashes more in a week than my entire family, their kids, their kids kids, etc etc , has in their LIFETIME. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 heres my issue....my computer crashes more in a week than my entire family, their kids, their kids kids, etc etc , has in their LIFETIME. Ive been saying this for months. I cant even trust my computer to reliably browse the Internet, and Im supposed to trust a computer to drive my f***ing car? No thanks, not in my lifetime. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 with you fuzzy....I feel safe the Russians cant hack my 6 speed..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 The car did have a 'human safety driver' in it at the time, and the pedestrian was outside the crosswalk. I thought the same thing BUT people cross streets outside of crosswalks all the time. I hope the lawsuit that is about to be filed really slows down this crap. I don't want it in my lifetime either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) And this is why it's wrong to beta test this tech on the roads with so many variables, computers simulate awareness and control over situations when they actually don't. and I hope this person's death is not written off as her fault for not crossing at a cross walk that kind of dismissive rhetoric is exactly what the technos wanting autonomy are all over.. Edited March 19, 2018 by jpd80 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I thought the same thing BUT people cross streets outside of crosswalks all the time. I hope the lawsuit that is about to be filed really slows down this crap. I don't want it in my lifetime either. My point is: Why couldn't the 'human safety driver' not stop in time? Likely because the pedestrian was at fault. I'm sure the car has pedestrian detection, whether the pedestrian is in a crosswalk or not, so I don't think that matters. No matter what you do, there are times when the driver (whether autonomous or not) just can't do anything about it. I'm not saying I'm in favor of autonomous driving, but the more I see people texting/reading a book/paper while driving, I'm beginning to think it's gotta be better than many of the moron drivers out there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Next week's headline...UBER resumes autonomous testing after it found a way to blame the pedestrian... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) And this is why it's wrong to beta test this tech on the roads with so many variables, computers simulate awareness and control over situations when they actually don't. I can't agree with you more! It is wrong on so many levels but disrupt, disrupt,disrupt! Uber, in an effort to please their investors (and stay in existence), wants to make it seem that their autonomous driving cars are right around the corner. They lobby with law makers to allow them to do this stunt driving/testing on public roads. Yet, they are beta testing with the lives of the public (much like Teslas auto pilot). The reality of it is, these cars are nowhere close to being able to react when variables don't act "how they are supposed to act in the real world". The saddest part of the equation is that the human safety driver was probably not even remotely paying attention because they were lulled into a sense of safety of the car making the decisions. You can guarantee that Uber will blame the safety driver and the pedestrian to deflect any culpability in this loss of life. It is sickening. In my opinion, it really should be all or nothing when it comes to autonomous cars. People get a false sense of comfort when a car drives itself 90% of time fine (see multiple Tesla Auto Pilot accidents). That's more time they can spend glued to their phones. Except that 10% when the technology and logic fails. In this instance, somebody lost their life. Just think of the outrage if this were a child, instead I bet this will be swept under a rug. Edited March 19, 2018 by jcartwright99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Next week's headline... UBER resumes autonomous testing after it found a way to blame the pedestrian... Question for you. I'm not saying this is what happened, but give this some thought. Car is driving along at the legal speed limit, approaching an intersection. Light is green. Pedestrian doesn't see the car and comes out from behind a parked car, right in front of the moving car, 5 feet in front of it, but 100 yards (or meters if you prefer) before the intersection. Driver does not have time to stop. Whose fault is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) Question for you. I'm not saying this is what happened, but give this some thought. Car is driving along at the legal speed limit, approaching an intersection. Light is green. Pedestrian doesn't see the car and comes out from behind a parked car, right in front of the moving car, 5 feet in front of it, but 100 yards (or meters if you prefer) before the intersection. Driver does not have time to stop. Whose fault is it? Yes, a Good legal question that throws up other questions like in that situation, would a human driver have perceived a situation and slowed down to watch for people walking out from behind parked vehicles? There's no easy answer for sure but now we have th added complication of people relying on technology that may or may not make good choices. A death may have happened in any regard but now that is muddied. the spot light is on what coulda shoulda woulda.... I've seen someone in this situation, you never really get over it no matter how much people try to tell the person it's not their fault. Every night these people go to bed and wonder if there was some small thing they could have done differently to save that person's life Edited March 19, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) My point is: Why couldn't the 'human safety driver' not stop in time? Likely because the pedestrian was at fault. Maybe the "human safety driver" was texting. Ever think of that? First "robot car" to kill a human......and it has begun! It's only going to get worse from here on out. Edited March 19, 2018 by coupe3w 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Maybe the "human safety driver" was texting. Ever think of that? First "robot car" to kill a human......and it has begun! It's only going to get worse from here on out. Yes I did think of that. I'm just saying that you can't always ASSume one way or the other. You need to look at all angles. You can't point fingers until you know the whole story, which we don't. I probably should have said 'possibly' instead of 'likely.' Bottom line, the pedestrian WAS breaking the law, so the car isn't 100% at fault. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 If they can implement actual AI, that can continuously monitor road conditions, and learn of course, adapt, etc.... then Self-driving cars will work. Also Skynet. Until then, this idea is dead on arrival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Yes, a Good legal question that throws up other questions like in that situation, would a human driver have perceived a situation and slowed down to watch for people walking out from behind parked vehicles? There's no easy answer for sure but now we have th added complication of people relying on technology that may or may not make good choices. A death may have happened in any regard but now that is muddied. the spot light is on what coulda shoulda woulda.... I've seen someone in this situation, you never really get over it no matter how much people try to tell the person it's not their fault. Every night these people go to bed and wonder if there was some small thing they could have done differently to save that person's life Natural Selection via autonomous vehicle technology. No more guilty consciousnesses; no more guy who texts whiles jay-walking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) Yes I did think of that. I'm just saying that you can't always ASSume one way or the other. You need to look at all angles. You can't point fingers until you know the whole story, which we don't. I probably should have said 'possibly' instead of 'likely.' Bottom line, the pedestrian WAS breaking the law, so the car isn't 100% at fault. I understand that but now that someone has died, everything comes under the microscope, I feel for the victim's family but also the driver too, I bet they are going through absolute hell.. I wouldn't like to apportion blame until we get clear legal resolution, ,I see only victims here.. Edited March 19, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Natural Selection via autonomous vehicle technology. No more guilty consciousnesses; no more guy who texts whiles jay-walking I hope Uber don't go down that cold blooded path but I have a feeling they will, purely because this is probably a first case scenario and a lot rides on the precedents that may flow from any judgement .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) Killed while pushing her bike across the street. So - not just a pedestrian but also her bike: https://twitter.com/AngieKoehle/status/975824484409077760 So much for "darting out in front of the vehicle". Will be interesting to hear the data and see how much deceleration (braking) the AI gave prior to the accident. Edited March 19, 2018 by Harley Lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 The fact that the victim was not in a crosswalk automatically places some of the blame on the victim even if it’s only 5%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Killed while pushing her bike across the street. So - not just a pedestrian but also her bike: https://twitter.com/AngieKoehle/status/975824484409077760 So much for "darting out in front of the vehicle". Will be interesting to hear the data and see how much deceleration (braking) the AI gave prior to the accident. You can still dart out into traffic pushing a bicycle, especially at night without lights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Car is driving along at the legal speed limit, approaching an intersection. Light is green. Pedestrian doesn't see the car and comes out from behind a parked car, right in front of the moving car, 5 feet in front of it, but 100 yards (or meters if you prefer) before the intersection. Driver does not have time to stop. Whose fault is it? That's not just a hypothetical--a friend of mine had that happen to a friend of his (she was the driver) when they were in high school. She's driving along at a reasonable speed, guy who's drunk out of his gourd stumbles out from between two cars, bam, he's dead and she needs counseling. Not a damn thing she could've done to avoid it--the pedestrian was in control all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Hypothetical...... What if autonomous car is electric (makes no sound) person crossing street is blind not in a crosswalk and gets hit who's at fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I'm beginning to think it's gotta be better than many of the moron drivers out there. Yes sir. Including Uber and Lyft drivers. Here's a total of deaths and criminal assaults attributed to Uber and Lyft drivers as of March 19, 2018. It does not include the incident in the original post. http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/rideshare-incidents#deaths Deaths: 48 Assaults: 91 Sexual assaults: 362 Kidnappings: 16 Fully autonomous cars have the potential to reduce such incidents to near zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Hypothetical...... What if autonomous car is electric (makes no sound) person crossing street is blind not in a crosswalk and gets hit who's at fault? Sound doesn’t matter. The person crossing the street outside the crosswalk is partially at fault and if the person was already in the street with enough time for the driver to see them and avoid them then the driver is also at fault. If the person walked out in front of the car or it was dark and the vehicle couldn’t see the person before they hit them then the vehicle is not at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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