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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Beasts of Burden: 2018 Ford Expedition versus Tahoe, Durango, Armada, Sequoia

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28 replies to this topic

#21 ONLINE   jasonj80

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:37 AM

 

From the folks I know at GM, the Expedition and Navigator were better than they expected. There are rumors that they were going to to keep the live axle but decided once seeing the Expedition decided to do IRS. This allegedly has delayed the launch date. This is a rumor so I don't know if it is true. We'll see how GM does with their NG models. It is going to be hard for them to leapfrog Ford but I do see them coming close. You got to love competition!!!! The lack thereof is why I think GM has dominated this segment.

I've heard this as well but that only the Denali and Escalade are delayed as only those models will be getting the IRS. Tahoe and Yukon will still have a solid rear axle. 









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#22 OFFLINE   fordmantpw

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:52 AM

Its going to have to be, I dont think they can increase it any further with the current setup.

 

Do they still have C&C production at KTP that can be moved to OHAP?


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#23 OFFLINE   Fgts

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 01:07 PM

 
You don't think GM has rested rested on their laurels? Have you driven a Tahoe or Escalade?  They aren't that great. The 5.3 V8 is not a good engine. Oil consumption and AFM issues are abundant. They do decent at hauling and towing but the ride is jittery. They have always been small in the back due to lack of IRS. 
 
The Durango isn't a competitor either and we all know that.
 
From the folks I know at GM, the Expedition and Navigator were better than they expected. There are rumors that they were going to to keep the live axle but decided once seeing the Expedition decided to do IRS. This allegedly has delayed the launch date. This is a rumor so I don't know if it is true. We'll see how GM does with their NG models. It is going to be hard for them to leapfrog Ford but I do see them coming close. You got to love competition!!!!

The Escalade gets IRS and an optional ttv8 while the Yukon and Tahoe keeps the SRA and ohv v8's. GM been good and quiet on how much power the revised 5.3/6.2 will have.

FCA is rumoured to have a Chrysler badged/Ram 1500 based suv along with Grand Wagoner for Expedition/Nav competition, Durango will get more sportier. Don't think the competition is standing still.

Edited by Fgts, 14 February 2018 - 01:48 PM.

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#24 ONLINE   fuzzymoomoo

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 01:44 PM

 
Do they still have C&C production at KTP that can be moved to OHAP?

AFAIK its already all in Ohio
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#25 OFFLINE   jcartwright99

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 02:40 PM

The Escalade gets IRS and an optional ttv8 while the Yukon and Tahoe keeps the SRA and ohv v8's. GM been good and quiet on how much power the revised 5.3/6.2 will have.

FCA is rumoured to have a Chrysler badged/Ram 1500 based suv along with Grand Wagoner for Expedition/Nav competition, Durango will get more sportier. Don't think the competition is standing still.

 

I don't think the competition IS standing still now. You could argue that between 2008-2018 most of the competition in this segment has been standing still. FCA is just now getting into this segment 20 years late. Durango is an Explorer competitor.


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#26 OFFLINE   rperez817

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:53 AM

The Escalade gets IRS and an optional ttv8 while the Yukon and Tahoe keeps the SRA and ohv v8's. GM been good and quiet on how much power the revised 5.3/6.2 will have.

FCA is rumoured to have a Chrysler badged/Ram 1500 based suv along with Grand Wagoner for Expedition/Nav competition, Durango will get more sportier. Don't think the competition is standing still.

 

Yes sir. The GM and FCA products in this segment are fine as they are, as the Motor Trend comparison indicates. The new versions should be excellent, like their new full size pickup trucks for 2019.

 

I don't know what Toyota and Nissan have in store for Sequoia and Armada in the near future. But as I mentioned earlier things don't look good for them in this segment. GM will remain dominant while Ford and FCA will steal some Toyota and Nissan customers.


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#27 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 01:05 AM

 

Do they still have C&C production at KTP that can be moved to OHAP?

That's been moved to OHAP, about 1.300/mth production freed up....

 

Not sure if there's two lines through the body shop but there's supposed to be an SUV line and a SD line

that merge and use a common final trim line...so plenty of opportunity for Ford to add capacity


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#28 OFFLINE   kyle

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 11:05 AM

 

You don't think GM has rested rested on their laurels? Have you driven a Tahoe or Escalade?  They aren't that great. The 5.3 V8 is not a good engine. Oil consumption and AFM issues are abundant. They do decent at hauling and towing but the ride is jittery. They have always been small in the back due to lack of IRS. 

 

I think their sales are more to do with Ford completely ignoring the Expedition and Navigator for more than a decade and the lack of true competition in this segment. Sure, they have given them mild refreshes (mostly based on what they were doing with the Silverado) and updates that included keeping powertrain fresh(er) but they weren't doing anything ground breaking at all. Ford had nothing to compete with the 6.2 V8 until the ecoboost refresh a couple years ago. In my opinion, they are really the only two options in the segment. The Sequoia was just okay when it came out but it too has been neglected and really only serves any purpose other than to fill a slot for the folks that only look at Toyota (much like their pickup truck). You can pretty much say the same thing for the Nissan. Both aren't as big either. The Durango isn't a competitor either and we all know that.

 

From the folks I know at GM, the Expedition and Navigator were better than they expected. There are rumors that they were going to to keep the live axle but decided once seeing the Expedition decided to do IRS. This allegedly has delayed the launch date. This is a rumor so I don't know if it is true. We'll see how GM does with their NG models. It is going to be hard for them to leapfrog Ford but I do see them coming close. You got to love competition!!!! The lack thereof is why I think GM has dominated this segment.

 

This works both ways since Ford has had their own share of problems.....but I get your point. Totally agree with you that Ford allowed that to happen and mentioned that in my initial post. Ford and anyone would gladly switch positions and own the volume, repeat customers, parts and service revenue, etc. any day over Ford or whoever. No doubt the rear seating sucks but it has not hurt them owning this market. 

 

Is their product great-no, but it is pretty damn good. I've rented a bunch of Tahoe's and Yukons-their interiors are pretty damn good, styling is great and I love the cylinder deactivation any day over the auto/start/stop. I rented a Yukon two weeks ago and had to go to their menu to even notice that the vehicle was running on 4 cylinders. 

 

Glad to see Ford and Lincoln swing for the fences on this and come up big-it is about time. Now they need to do that across the board with all of their upcoming products...


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#29 OFFLINE   Dlcorbett

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:41 AM

Looking back at the comparison, the tahoe wouldve been in sec place if not for the durango. I still think the previous gen expys were better than the current gms, the japanese trucks are just ugly, and gms are pretty but lack substance.








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