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Raptor It’s not about the fracking engine so leave us alone- Ford.


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It’s not about the fracking engine so leave us alone- Ford.

 

Article taken from Facebook

 

 

Ford Performance’s chief engineer has reacted to criticism of the brand’s choice of powerplant for the new Ranger Raptor, saying that the fresh-faced off-roading bakkie is “not about the engine”.

 

Revealed in Thailand, the new Ranger Raptor employs a 2,0-litre four-cylinder twin-turbo diesel engine worth 157 kW and 500 N.m. While those peak outputs best the existing 3,2-litre five-cylinder turbodiesel mill by 10 kW and 30 N.m, they also see the Ranger Raptor trail the likes of the highest-output Volkswagen Amarok V6 (165 kW/550 N.m) and the upcoming Mercedes-Benz X350d (190 kW and 550 N.m)

 

Speaking to South African media after the reveal in Bangkok, Jamal Hameedi, chief engineer at Ford Performance, said that the focus should not be on power.

 

“The Raptor is not about the engine. It’s about the chassis. Those shocks cost as much as an engine … literally,” he said, referring to special Fox Racing dampers.

 

“If you’re talking about power; if you’re focused on power, that’s not a Raptor. That’s not what Raptor’s about. It’s about the chassis and the suspension,” added Hameedi, who has been responsible for the development and delivery of all high-performance Ford vehicles globally since 2013.

 

The Ranger Raptor uses a new 10-speed automatic transmission, with drive sent to all four corners. The beefed-up bakkie offers as many as six distinct driving modes, and features coilover rear suspension with a Watt’s link arrangement. Ford has yet to reveal performance figures.

 

“And, honestly, when you go off-road, the whole idea behind this is conservation of speed. So, you’re not braking, accelerating, braking, accelerating. You just need a powerplant to keep you going,” Hameedi said.

 

 

Three things stand out,

 

“The focus should not be in power”

“Those shocks cost as much as an engine”

“That’s not what raptor is about”

 

The raptor brand is a pre-existing brand with cult like following. It’s established.

 

When you make any of those comments in defense of your brand within 24 hours

of launch of an addition to that brand, what’s that mean?

 

While suspension is an integral part of the Raptor, performance is equally important,

a 2.0 Turbo Diesel is an instant turn off to 99% of buyers who would even consider it.

 

Only a 2.3 Ecoboost will stop Raptor becoming a nil order wallflower.

 

 

 

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Conservation of speed? Show me one raptor that was made for rock crawling and going slow. The f150 raptor was designed around off road racing right? I mean why enter it in all those Baja races if you are just going to drive it slow.

Edited by T-dubz
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Conservation of speed? Show me one raptor that was made for rock crawling and going slow. The f150 raptor was designed around off road racing right? I mean why enter it in all those Baja races if you are just going to drive it slow.

No, what he means is that the diesel makes it a momentum vehicle where,

once it's up to speed off road, it can hold that pace thanks to the torque.

 

I don't think that's what people want in a Raptor, not your market and not in ours,

Ford has distorted the brand name to suit their own ends...

 

This would be akin to offering F150 Raptor with only a 3.0 V6 diesel for $50,000

probably a nice truck but definitely not what Raptor buyers would expect or want.

Why is this so hard for Ford to understand, do they not listen to their own customers?

Edited by jpd80
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.This would be akin to offering F150 Raptor with a 3.0 V6 diesel only for $50,000

probably a nice truck but definitely not what Raptor buyers would expect or want.

 

What people want and what they can afford is often correlated by how much bitching about something entails about it.

 

I want a F-150 Raptor but it costs $100K AUD, but hey Ford is offering a Ranger Raptor for $50K-nah I don't want it now because it has this little diesel engine in it when I wanted a 400hp + beast...

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Honestly, for me you could make an appearance package that looks like the raptor on the regular ranger and Id be happy. I have no need for an engine larger than the 2.3, dont need the shocks and definitely wont be off roading besides the occasional hunting trip. I just like how it looks lol

Edited by T-dubz
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What people want and what they can afford is often correlated by how much bitching about something entails about it.

 

I want a F-150 Raptor but it costs $100K AUD, but hey Ford is offering a Ranger Raptor for $50K-nah I don't want it now because it has this little diesel engine in it when I wanted a 400hp + beast...

a 4x4 XLT costs more than $50K

The Ranger Raptor will be $80K plus on roads which will take it close to $90K

 

An F150 Raptor is close to $130K

 

It's not just piss and moan behind it, there are genuine reasons for customers in that segment to be hesitant.

Edited by jpd80
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Honestly, for me you could make the raptor just an appearance package on the regular ranger and Id be happy. I have no need for an engine larger than the 2.3, dont need the shocks and definitely wont be off roading besides the occasional hunting trip. I just like how it looks lol

Nor do I, a 2.3 EB would be a much better fit...

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I think he must-spoke on a variety of topics. I understand what he was trying to say but he said it very poorly. Essentially maintaining speed over rough terrain, but instead he made it sound like the truck doesnt have a lot of power to get itself going.

 

Nobody has driven this truck yet, right? I guess it remains to be seen if it is a dog or not. Was this engine used to avoid the high displacement taxes in some markets?

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thats denial....see what happens to the fullsize Raptor if they put a 2.7 eco-boost in it............whomever decised on the 2.0 diesel WASNT listening to its fan base...all they have to do is follow blogs...the 2.7 has the CUSTOMERS approval....

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thats denial....see what happens to the fullsize Raptor if they put a 2.7 eco-boost in it............whomever decised on the 2.0 diesel WASNT listening to its fan base...all they have to do is follow blogs...the 2.7 has the CUSTOMERS approval....

They actually were listening to the fan base, the number 1 requested item on the Raptor F-150 is a Diesel engine, and that is from Ford own research. Also following blogs is pointless, they all want a RWD v8 sedan with stick-shift - that worked great for Chevrolet. Saying you want something but not being an actual customer of it is pretty much the internet mode of operation. Fuel is also $5+ a gallon in AU, so mileage is a concern even if someone is buying a 70K truck. I would love a Raptor Ranger with the diesel, having moved and dealing with more traffic and street parking at times the full sized Raptor can be downright annoying at times, not to mention the 10mpg when its cold.

 

The 2.7L will probably show up if it fits in the US. I can see some added power-trains in the Second Model year.

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beg to differ BIG time...the ONLY thing i heard here ( US ) was questioning the V6 ecoboost over a V8...not ONCE in the entire llife of the raptor have I ever seen, heard or witnessed ant desire at all for a Diesel in the Full size Raptor. In the regular F150 yes, raptor no. Maybe in Aussie , due to petrol prices its different...but judging by people exporting eco-boost Full size Raptors to New Zealand and Australia, when you have the $ gas prices are moot. And as much as i hate to say this, the US market is HUGE in comparison.

Edited by Deanh
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beg to differ BIG time...the ONLY thing i heard here ( US ) was questioning the V6 ecoboost over a V8...not ONCE in the entire llife of the raptor have I ever seen, heard or witnessed ant desire at all for a Diesel in the Full size Raptor. In the regular F150 yes, raptor no. Maybe in Aussie , due to petrol prices its different...but judging by people exporting eco-boost Full size Raptors to New Zealand and Australia, when you have the $ gas prices are moot. And as much as i hate to say this, the US market is HUGE in comparison.

 

I don't think anyone in NA is expecting a 2L Diesel engine in a US Spec Ranger Raptor-

 

Not to mention anything over 2L in other markets gets taxed a higher rate also. Not as big of a deal, but something else to worry about in certain markets.

 

I'm guessing Ford wanted something "cool" to debut the new 2L Diesel in, but it winds up blowing up in their faces because of bitching from internet forums.

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a 4x4 XLT costs more than $50K

The Ranger Raptor will be $80K plus on roads which will take it close to $90K

 

An F150 Raptor is close to $130K

 

It's not just piss and moan behind it, there are genuine reasons for customers in that segment to be hesitant.

 

My pricing was a very general comparison in price between the two products...forget things are more expensive down there.

 

All it sounds like is people bitching about Ecoboost engines without actually driving them

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Or maybe the 2.7LEB just wasn’t ready yet - doesn’t mean they’ll never use it. I bet the 2.0L diesel outperforms the old 3.2L which they probably would have been perfectly happy with otherwise.

Maybe so but it's probably more to do with what's easiest to do in regards to addressing customer needs.

North America is primarily gasoline centric so the selection of I-4 Ecoboost was an easy progression with least engine bay changes.

Similarly, the 2.0 Ecoblue diesel is replacing the older 2.2 I-4 Puma diesel, adding a HP variant of that engine in Raptor makes sense.

 

I'm prepared to accept that Ford is chasing a broader range of buyers than my narrow field of vision,

perhaps there's a big pool of buyers sitting there waiting for these exact trucks as delivered by Ford.

The presence and acceptance of Colorado ZR2 and its diesel engine is probably proof/justification

for Ranger Raptor going the HP diesel route with the added benefit of that wonderful 10-speed auto.

Edited by jpd80
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beg to differ BIG time...the ONLY thing i heard here ( US ) was questioning the V6 ecoboost over a V8...not ONCE in the entire llife of the raptor have I ever seen, heard or witnessed ant desire at all for a Diesel in the Full size Raptor. In the regular F150 yes, raptor no. Maybe in Aussie , due to petrol prices its different...but judging by people exporting eco-boost Full size Raptors to New Zealand and Australia, when you have the $ gas prices are moot. And as much as i hate to say this, the US market is HUGE in comparison.

Different market for Grey market vehicles in AU, Raptor buyers are the same people that buy Ferrai's and Bentley's it is a 130K-140K vehicle with taxes. There's a big difference in someone spending 70K on a vehicle they drive every day fuel consumption matters to those people,it might not be number 1 but the difference between spending an extra 1500/2000 in fuel matters to those people. It doesn't matter to the 140K crowd.

 

I've been to two different Raptor Study groups and Diesel was brought up at both of them by current owners. that is where the person make the comment at these events that is the number 1 request. The one study group actually focused on the Ecoboost V6; if it had the same drive-ability then no one really cared. Only negative comments on it were the sound vs the V8.These were actual customers of the previous gen models.

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Could be a little dubious for Australia/ New Zealand but selling across more than a hundred countries may actually prove the decision correct. I would love to see a choice of engines that cover diesel and gasoline markets, I dont think that would be unreasonable

Edited by jpd80
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We don't know yet what powertrain choices will be for Ranger outside North America.

 

Currently, T6 is available with the following:

2.5 I4 gas 160hp / 167 lb-ft (selected markets only)

2.2 I4 diesel 125hp / 240 lb-ft

2.2 Id diesel 150hp / 277 lb-ft

2.2 I4 diesel 160hp / 284 lb-ft

3.2 I5 diesel 200hp / 347 lb-ft

 

All we know is the 2.0 EcoBlue (which will available with 3 different output in Transit Custom) is coming to replace the Puma 2.2 and 3.2 because the Puma family won't meet Euro VI emission: https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/Europe/documents/productReleases/Transit/FordTransitEcoBlue_TechSpecs_EU.pdf

 

We also know the 2.5 I4 gas engine is on the way out... and Ford may decide to replace that with the 2.3 EB in the rest of the world (not just in the US).

 

So based on the Transit specs...

2.0 EcoBlue diesel 105 hp / 266 lb-ft

2.0 EcoBlue diesel 130hp / 284 lb-ft

2.0 EcoBlue diesel 170 hp / 300 lb-ft

2.3 Ecoboost gas 280hp / 310 lb-ft [Ford hasn't announce any power number but this is the Explorer spec]

2.0 EcoBlue diesel 210 hp / 369 lb-ft [Raptor]

 

I expect the 2.3 gasoline will get tweeked a bit to lower hp but higher torque. Also note that 2.0 EcoBlue family has a lot more torque across the board vs 2.2 Puma at similar hp... so paired with 10 speed auto, they should provide excellent performance and fuel economy.

 

The only potential problem I see... if 2.3 EB is not offered in certain markets, that leaves a large gap between the 300 lb-ft and 369 lb-ft Raptor version where the old 3.2 I5 (347 lb-ft) lives now. Perhaps Ford will revise the 300 lb-ft version up to 320 lb-ft or so.

Edited by bzcat
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Theres two other tunes for the 2.0 Ecoblue as used in European Edge

Both just over 200 hp one around 300 lb ft, the other around 335 lb ft

So plenty of choices for different Ranger trim levels

 

Perhaps the stronger power level replaces the 3.2 and a lower level

For the old 2.2.

Edited by jpd80
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Obviously, media isn't something he is best suited for. I would have fired his ass honestly.

While he may not of told you what you wanted to hear, hate the comment about firing his ass.

For what?

 

Im sure you have a great track record and have never misspoken or had your words taken out of context.

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The sad fact is not every market is as performance oriented as the US & Australia, and on top of that multiple countries have heavy taxes on vehicles depending on their engine capacity and CO2 output. My guess is FoA would have loved a TT2.7l petrol, but it just doesn't make sense for what would be a niche vehicle in a niche market (Australia). I also think FoUSA want to keep the 2.7 up their sleeve so they have something different to launch in the US, as opposed to the Ranger Raptor being "nothing new" when it launches there. Whether that means it will then filter through to RoW, who knows.

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Personally I'm getting tired of V6s. Let's see a new inline six platform designed as a flexible high volume powertrain. Something in the 2.7L-3.3L range. This new platform could come in 2-3 different displacements and be the base engine in Ranger/F150/Bronco/Everest/mustang and the new CD6 models as well since they'll be set up for longitudinal drivetrains. Then do an ecoboost version or two to replace the current 2.7 and 3.5 V6s in F150 and Expedition as well as high trim/raptor versions of Ranger/Bronco.

 

No reason to continue with the compromised vee block since all the transverse drivetrain stuff will soon be small enough to be fully served by the 4 cyl ecoboost engines once CD6 gets here. Turbo packaging is also so much better on an inline block and would probably allow for the cost savings of a single turbo vs two on the ecoboost engines. Also the natural smoothness of an inline six would be a great compliment to Lincoln's "quiet luxury" image (not that the current V6s aren't smooth, just that an inline six doesn't have to deal with the balance issues a V6 does from a design standpoint).

Edited by Sevensecondsuv
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