rmc523 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 http://shareholder.ford.com/~/media/Files/F/Ford-IR-V2/events-and-presentations/2018/january-2018-sales-v1.pdf What the heck happened to Lincoln? Everything but Navigator down, some pretty substantially....MKX down 1,000 units?? Not many bright spots. F-series eeked out a slight gain, but that's about it for positives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 They are pricing themselves out of the market. To many recalls don't help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Looks like Toyota is taking the market share. Toyota's sales rose 16.8 percent in January. It noted strong demand for its pickup trucks and SUVs, plus its revamped Camry passenger car, which was up more than 21 percent. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/01/automakers-post-mixed-january-vehicle-sales-suvs-in-favor.html Haven't seen a single new Expedition on the road yet - and I live in the land of over-the-top suburban SUV's. I think the Ford brand has fallen off the shopping list for many. Edited February 1, 2018 by Kev-Mo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) http://shareholder.ford.com/~/media/Files/F/Ford-IR-V2/events-and-presentations/2018/january-2018-sales-v1.pdf What the heck happened to Lincoln? Everything but Navigator down, some pretty substantially....MKX down 1,000 units?? Not many bright spots. F-series eeked out a slight gain, but that's about it for positives. You are seeing some of the fruit of Fields starting to sprout in regards to Lincoln, sales wise. They needed the 8 speed when they introduced the 2017 Continental and 2017 MKZ. Plus, MKC refresh needed to be done for MY 18 and with an 8 speed as well. I don't care if the joint venture 8 speed wasn't ready. Get a getrag or another suppliers in there while their 8/9 was being developed. It's all about product, stupid (not you, but just saying in general)! I don't have much hope for the MKC's refresh either. The Nautilus has a fighters chance with the new front and 8 speed, I just hope they up the engine offerings. I thoroughly disagree with them offering the same base engine as the Edge in the Nautilus. Edited February 1, 2018 by jcartwright99 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 With the new MKC and Nautilus coming out this year, I personally wouldn't be buying the older version. The refresh made the new ones look much more appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Ford sales are down vs 2017 because they had that "front loaded" rental delivery last year. Lincoln sales are down probably because lower inventory? Hard to tell because there is no separate Lincoln inventory stats but maybe the 2017 MKC and MKX are running thin on the ground and the facelift 2018 MKC and Nautilus are not here yet. Looks like Ford had a huge E-series fleet order delivery this month. Also, I'm predicting Toyota will finally outsell Ford this year. Based on the trend from the last 6 months, Ford's hold on #2 is a thing of past. Unless they really go crazy and blow out the final batch of Focus to rental fleet or something like that. Edited February 1, 2018 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Ford sales are down vs 2017 because they had that "front loaded" rental delivery last year. Lincoln sales are down probably because lower inventory? Hard to tell because there is no separate Lincoln inventory stats but maybe the 2017 MKC and MKX are running thin on the ground and the facelift 2018 MKC and Nautilus are not here yet. Looks like Ford had a huge E-series fleet order delivery this month. Also, I'm predicting Toyota will finally outsell Ford this year. Based on the trend from the last 6 months, Ford's hold on #2 is a thing of past. Unless they really go crazy and blow out the final batch of Focus to rental fleet or something like that. When do MKC and Nautilus arrive? Not until summer right? Apparently MKC is summer, and Nautilus is fall, according to C&D and Motortrend. Edited February 1, 2018 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 We have essentially had the same Focus for 7 model years with the same garbage transmission. It barely has been updated too. You wonder why they don't sell! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 How does the industry look? I know we had some bitter damn cold weather in January, and this has been a bad flu season, and those must've had some effects on sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Ouch...they have nothing in regards to cars..we have tried to luv on the focus as it is time we replaced the fiesta after 6 years (nary a quality issue by the way)..they just have zilch in regards to cars.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Ford numbers aren’t terrible outside of Focus and Fusion. Expy would have made up some of that volume if it was fully stocked. ATPs are way up, so maybe they cut back on incentives which would account for some of the loss (not all obviously) - or did that bump just come from more Expedition, Navigator and F series high end sales? But the Lincoln numbers are shocking unless they also cut way back on incentives. I’m only seeing $1K on MKX and $0 on Continental. That would explain a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Lots of things counting against Ford maintaining sales in January, some external and some internal. The worst of it is the delay on daily rental sales but also the age of Ford's product combined with smaller incentives, non-competitive interest rates. Anytime Ford leads with higher than industry ATPs means that they are trading of a richer mix of F Series sales to pull up numbers by the boot straps, I wonder how that overall ATP of $37K would look like if we deducted those 58,000 F Series sales averaging $47,000.....probably less then $30K I'd imagine. Q1 sales are not a good time to gauge Ford sales performance, they are a get through until retail customers return in early spring, the biggest plus for Ford is that '17 YM sell down has gone very well for them thanks in most part to some earlier timings. And I bet Navigator sales were only limited to 1200 because that's all dealers could get their hands on, similarly I suspect Expedition is still a little scarce around the place thanks to the heavy SD build mix coming out of Kentucky Truck Plant... Edited February 1, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Ouch...they have nothing in regards to cars..we have tried to luv on the focus as it is time we replaced the fiesta after 6 years (nary a quality issue by the way)..they just have zilch in regards to cars.. My take on their cars is extremely negative right now. This thread has made me angry because this is further proof that Ford pushed the pause button on virtually everything except the F150 as far as real development for a while there. Fiesta I believe is a dead man walking. Taurus is a dead man walking. Focus (see above) really needed to be replaced last year. The Fusion offers nothing class leading or innovative (maybe AWD). For those that say cars aren't selling look at Toyota and Honda. People are buying cars, just not as many as before. Those folks that are buying cars don't want a car that is just average or ok, when they can go to their Honda or Toyota dealer and get class leading for the same price. Look at the specs of the Camry and Accord and compare it to the Fusion (which just got updated for 2017) and tell me there wasn't some really poor decision making going on with that update. I've heard mixed reviews on Hackett so far. I will withhold judgement for a while but one things is for certain, he is going to have his hands full. Trying to keep current products competitive and class leading, while trying to get hybrid/electrics ready for take off can't be easy but that's why they pay him millions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Regarding Honda, sales of the all-new Accord are down 9.5 percent for January The Civic is up 2.8 percent for January. Toyota has not hesitated to sell Camrys and Corollas to fleets, and it has not been shy about using heavy incentives to move the metal. Honda probably provides a better picture of the true state of the retail passenger car market. Edited February 1, 2018 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Navigator up 97% Could have been higher if they had the inventory. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-is-selling-dollar90000-suvs-faster-than-it-can-make-them/ar-BBIzTLy?li=BBnbfcL Edited February 1, 2018 by MY93SHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgm Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 What is the deal with the Expedition? Something tells me they cant make enough. All hot selling vehicles on 1 line does not sound like a good plan to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 We have essentially had the same Focus for 7 model years with the same garbage transmission. It barely has been updated too. You wonder why they don't sell! Yeah, we really dont though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 What is the deal with the Expedition? Something tells me they cant make enough. All hot selling vehicles on 1 line does not sound like a good plan to me. From a long term perspective it may be fine, but during the initial release it will hamper sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 My take on their cars is extremely negative right now. This thread has made me angry because this is further proof that Ford pushed the pause button on virtually everything except the F150 as far as real development for a while there. Fiesta I believe is a dead man walking. Taurus is a dead man walking. Focus (see above) really needed to be replaced last year. The Fusion offers nothing class leading or innovative (maybe AWD). For those that say cars aren't selling look at Toyota and Honda. People are buying cars, just not as many as before. Those folks that are buying cars don't want a car that is just average or ok, when they can go to their Honda or Toyota dealer and get class leading for the same price. Look at the specs of the Camry and Accord and compare it to the Fusion (which just got updated for 2017) and tell me there wasn't some really poor decision making going on with that update. I've heard mixed reviews on Hackett so far. I will withhold judgement for a while but one things is for certain, he is going to have his hands full. Trying to keep current products competitive and class leading, while trying to get hybrid/electrics ready for take off can't be easy but that's why they pay him millions. Fusion is still very competitive on looks and features. That's not the problems. The problem is it's virtually unchanged in appearance for 5 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Fusion is still very competitive on looks and features. That's not the problems. The problem is it's virtually unchanged in appearance for 5 years. The Fusion is noncompetitive in fuel economy. The 2.0 is punchy but not that frugal. The 1.5 is really underpowered but gets good MPG. The 2.5 is virtually unchanged since the 2010 model. Again, nothing class leading about the powertrain options or FE. I give you the Sport for power but that's a very niche car and has dreadful FE. Edited February 1, 2018 by jcartwright99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 note to Ford...people shop different brands and when your programs arent competitive you lose....and seriously WTF is up with this "up to $1000" in coupons program ahere the coupon amount is limited....got a few pi$$ed off customers there...quote a guy one week, run out of coupons...$1000 bump the next week....and you want CSI to be maintained at a high level?????????????? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 They are going to have to use incentives to move essentially old products. I dont see any way around that. And when they arent offering incentives on those vehicles I find it quite surprising. It is a self inflicted problem, sadly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 From a long term perspective it may be fine, but during the initial release it will hamper sales. But that's a short term impact, and during that time ATPs will be high because you don't need incentives and you'll probably be selling more limited and platinum models. If you hire another shift or add to another plant then you have a huge amount of fixed costs to recover from the additional volume to cover that cost, so that volume has to be really high to make that a worthwhile investment. Adding another shift could actually result in less profit, which some people don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 The Fusion is noncompetitive in fuel economy. The 2.0 is punchy but not that frugal. The 1.5 is really underpowered but gets good MPG. The 2.5 is virtually unchanged since the 2010 model. Again, nothing class leading about the powertrain options or FE. I give you the Sport for power but that's a very niche car and has dreadful FE. But it's never had great fuel economy by comparison. That didn't stop it from selling 300K a few years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 They are going to have to use incentives to move essentially old products. I dont see any way around that. And when they arent offering incentives on those vehicles I find it quite surprising. It is a self inflicted problem, sadly. It's sometimes better to sell 100K units with $1K incentive than 200K units with $4K incentives. It all depends on the profit margin and fixed costs. Don't get too hung up on absolute sales numbers - they don't tell the whole story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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