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Guest Message by DevFuse

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PSA is Pissed at GM, Demands Refund


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31 replies to this topic

#21 ONLINE   akirby

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 08:18 PM

Absolutely, if the current crop of Buick's had Pontiac badges in the US sales probably would be double if not more. Buick could stay for China but in the US it should have died. Pontiac never had an issue selling to younger buyers, they were actually attracted to the brand. Buick has spent billions trying to find a market and appeal to younger buyer and it hasn't resonated. You can always sell an old person a young persons car, you can't sell a young person an old person car.


Which Pontiac vehicles were successful? Not the G8/GTO. Not Solstice.
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#22 OFFLINE   fordmantpw

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 08:49 PM

Which Pontiac vehicles were successful? Not the G8/GTO. Not Solstice.


Come on man! Aztec! Vibe!
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#23 ONLINE   jasonj80

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:21 PM

Come on man! Aztec! Vibe!

The Vibe was better than the Venero, G6 Sold better than the Regal. The Aztec was just ugly but a redesign could have fixed that, it actually drove well. (and when you were driving it you weren't looking at it) Torrent sold well enough and the Grand Prix for as old as it was still sold decent. It's also hard to say if the Solstice and G8 would have been successful as the world financial markets imploded just as they were being launched. Keeping Buick is cheap, the only models made here is the Enclave, and Lacrosse in shared assembly. The rest are from China, Korea or Germany. I do wonder how much longer until the Regal is being brought in from China as well.

 



#24 OFFLINE   rperez817

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:45 PM

PSA  made a very stupid choice and will pay the price. They could have used the money to enter the American market and compete in a market where they at least have a chance to expand.

 

PSA Group actually entered the American market in April 2017 as a mobility services provider. They did a pilot U.S. launch of Free2Move in LA. This service aggregates car sharing and bicycle sharing providers. It expanded the service in October with a full launch in Seattle. https://www.theverge...-launches-in-us


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#25 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:33 AM

Remember the people who thought  that PSA was getting a bargain and would quickly turn Opel around showing up GM?

PSA may eventually do that but definitely not with those GM legacy products....

 

It just confirms how different Ford and GM had become in Europe and ROW ......


Edited by jpd80, 07 December 2017 - 03:39 AM.


#26 ONLINE   fuzzymoomoo

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:20 AM

Remember the people who thought  that PSA was getting a bargain and would quickly turn Opel around showing up GM?
PSA may eventually do that but definitely not with those GM legacy products....
 
It just confirms how different Ford and GM had become in Europe and ROW ......

Ford of Europe still hasnt shown they can be consistently profitable though
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What? What happened?


#27 OFFLINE   rmc523

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:21 AM

Which Pontiac vehicles were successful? Not the G8/GTO. Not Solstice.

 

G6 because it was cheap and catered to the rental car market.  I don't get the argument for keeping Pontiac.

 

Ford of Europe still hasnt shown they can be consistently profitable though

 

Better than being consistently unprofitable for decades at least?


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#28 ONLINE   akirby

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:58 AM

G6 because it was cheap and catered to the rental car market. 


I guess I should have said successful in retail.

I think people like the idea of Pontiac more than the actual vehicles.
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#29 OFFLINE   rmc523

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:32 AM

I guess I should have said successful in retail.

I think people like the idea of Pontiac more than the actual vehicles.

 

Oh I know what you meant - my post was agreeing with you - the only "successful" model was so because it sold primarily to rental fleets.


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#30 ONLINE   Pioneer

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:47 AM

I hope PSA kept their receipt. No receipt, no refund.
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#31 OFFLINE   grbeck

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:12 PM

The government team in charge of the bailout originally wanted to jettison everything but Chevrolet and Cadillac. The GM team convinced them to retain Buick and GMC based on the former's popularity in China, and the latter's ability to charge more for Chevrolet trucks and SUVs with different grilles. Whether that was the right move can be debated endlessly.

 

Pontiac was long past its heyday by 2008. The brand's golden era stretched from 1959 through roughly 1971. By 2008, there weren't that many potential customers left who remembered Pontiac's glory days. And the time when a Pontiac was a definite step-up from a Chevrolet in status and prestige was long gone.

 

Pontiac's performance image was long gone, too. Chevrolet, with the Corvette, had more of a performance image than Pontiac. The G8 and GTO were good cars, but they had zero impact on the market. GM simply didn't have the marketing and public relations acumen to establish these two cars as performance bargains. GM hasn't displayed that level of marketing savvy since the days of Jim Wangers and the original GTO (and note that GM management at the time fought Pontiac brass over what Wangers was doing).

 

Lutz thought that he could turn Pontiac into a domestic, bargain-basement BMW. The problem is that real lower-level BMWs aren't necessarily that expensive anymore, and the people who buy them wouldn't be caught dead in a Pontiac. The people who want old-school domestic performance - and the image that goes with it - are buying Dodge Chargers and Challengers.

 

As for Ford of Europe - it has a solid commercial business in the Transit line, and the Fiesta and Focus are respected and popular. The Fiesta, for example, has been the best-selling vehicle in the United Kingdom. The Fusion/Mondeo has been hurt by the decline in sales of non-premium large sedans, but that isn't just happening to Ford. Ford of Europe and GM's old European operations were miles apart in overall performance and profitability.


Edited by grbeck, 07 December 2017 - 02:14 PM.

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#32 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:50 AM

Ford of Europe still hasnt shown they can be consistently profitable though

That's a little tough on them...

FOE's Operating margin and Pre-Tax result are negative for the first time since Q1 2015,

the reasons for them being negative in Q3 are explained on page 18 of this presentation...http://shareholder.f...ings-Slides.pdf


Edited by jpd80, 08 December 2017 - 02:51 AM.

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