PSA is Pissed at GM, Demands Refund

[fuzzymoomoo]

Remember the people who thought that PSA was getting a bargain and would quickly turn Opel around showing up GM?

PSA may eventually do that but definitely not with those GM legacy products....

 

It just confirms how different Ford and GM had become in Europe and ROW ......

Ford of Europe still hasnt shown they can be consistently profitable though

[rmc523]

Which Pontiac vehicles were successful? Not the G8/GTO. Not Solstice.

 

G6 because it was cheap and catered to the rental car market. I don't get the argument for keeping Pontiac.

 

Ford of Europe still hasnt shown they can be consistently profitable though

 

Better than being consistently unprofitable for decades at least?

[akirby]

G6 because it was cheap and catered to the rental car market.

 

I guess I should have said successful in retail.

 

I think people like the idea of Pontiac more than the actual vehicles.

[rmc523]

I guess I should have said successful in retail.

 

I think people like the idea of Pontiac more than the actual vehicles.

 

Oh I know what you meant - my post was agreeing with you - the only "successful" model was so because it sold primarily to rental fleets.

[Pioneer]

I hope PSA kept their receipt. No receipt, no refund.

[grbeck]

The government team in charge of the bailout originally wanted to jettison everything but Chevrolet and Cadillac. The GM team convinced them to retain Buick and GMC based on the former's popularity in China, and the latter's ability to charge more for Chevrolet trucks and SUVs with different grilles. Whether that was the right move can be debated endlessly.

 

Pontiac was long past its heyday by 2008. The brand's golden era stretched from 1959 through roughly 1971. By 2008, there weren't that many potential customers left who remembered Pontiac's glory days. And the time when a Pontiac was a definite step-up from a Chevrolet in status and prestige was long gone.

 

Pontiac's performance image was long gone, too. Chevrolet, with the Corvette, had more of a performance image than Pontiac. The G8 and GTO were good cars, but they had zero impact on the market. GM simply didn't have the marketing and public relations acumen to establish these two cars as performance bargains. GM hasn't displayed that level of marketing savvy since the days of Jim Wangers and the original GTO (and note that GM management at the time fought Pontiac brass over what Wangers was doing).

 

Lutz thought that he could turn Pontiac into a domestic, bargain-basement BMW. The problem is that real lower-level BMWs aren't necessarily that expensive anymore, and the people who buy them wouldn't be caught dead in a Pontiac. The people who want old-school domestic performance - and the image that goes with it - are buying Dodge Chargers and Challengers.

 

As for Ford of Europe - it has a solid commercial business in the Transit line, and the Fiesta and Focus are respected and popular. The Fiesta, for example, has been the best-selling vehicle in the United Kingdom. The Fusion/Mondeo has been hurt by the decline in sales of non-premium large sedans, but that isn't just happening to Ford. Ford of Europe and GM's old European operations were miles apart in overall performance and profitability.

Edited December 7, 2017 by grbeck

[jpd80]

Ford of Europe still hasnt shown they can be consistently profitable though

That's a little tough on them...

FOE's Operating margin and Pre-Tax result are negative for the first time since Q1 2015,

the reasons for them being negative in Q3 are explained on page 18 of this presentation...http://shareholder.ford.com/~/media/Files/F/Ford-IR-V2/events-and-presentations/2017/10-26-17-Q3/2017-3Q-Corp-Earnings-Slides.pdf

Edited December 8, 2017 by jpd80

[630land]

Pontiac fans want vintage cars with Pontiac 400 ci V8's. The Australian cars didn't fly with them.

 

Buick-GMC dealers want trucks, #1 Buick is Encore. Move on.

[jpd80]

We're seeing people on enthusiast forums wondering their preferred vehicle types are no longer in vogue

and for some it's hard to realize that the market has really moved on, that which was mainstream is now an outlier.

 

but there's no reason why enthusiasts can't be captured and bundled into an efficient profitable niches.

Ford showed that with the global RHD Mustang by bundling up all the RHD markets and developing

Mustang to to suit them as a group and give the plant profitable incremental product to make

....something GM can't do globally thanks to it regional branding policy.

 

For many brands, it's easier to shrivel up and die rather than spending resources trying to change..

Edited December 21, 2017 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

Which Pontiac vehicles were successful? Not the G8/GTO. Not Solstice.

 

 

They where successful in magazine reviews-just like Caddy- but that doesn't really translate into real world sales does it now?

 

I kinda like the Solstice-but I would never buy one since I had no room in the footwell in it.

Edited December 21, 2017 by silvrsvt

[630land]

"Wondering why their preferred vehicle types are no longer in vouge".

 

Because most of the fan boys never bought them. Just expect everyone to do want they endlessly say.

 

Or they expect Govt to intervene, saying all should drive manual transmission wagons, and demanding higher gas prices.

Edited January 11, 2018 by 630land

[630land]

G8 flopped since true Pontiac fans wanted reproductions of 1960's cars. Or, car guys expected to buy used ones. Many other reasons.

 

Lutz was living in a fantasy land, with "American BMW".

 

Also, the base v6 model needed to be the volume seller, but not at the prices asked.

 

GM simply could not support all the dated brands. Chevy has performance cars. They can't build duplicate brands just for fans to look at.

Edited January 11, 2018 by 630land

[630land]

Back on topic, GM should say "Tough shhh"

Edited January 11, 2018 by 630land

[J-150]

Back on topic, GM should say "Tough shhh"

I would imagine they have perfected their responses to disgruntled buyers

Edited January 11, 2018 by J-150