Jump to content

Custom Search





Coming Up Next:
Lincoln Aviator


Welcome to Blue Oval Forums


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to Blue Oval Forums.  You must first register to create topics and post replies. Registration is a quick and easy process and only takes a minute.  Be apart of Blue Oval Forums by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images
  • Use the Shout feature and more. . .
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

PSA is Pissed at GM, Demands Refund


  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

silvrsvt

    Bite my Shiny metal ass!

  • Moderator
  • 17,987 posts
  • Joined 03-October 02
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Current Vehicle:2017 Escape SE AWD/2013 Taurus SHO

Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:58 PM

http://www.gminsiden...demands-refund/

 

Why does this not surprise me! Holy shit show! 

 

 


"Hell, there are no rules here-- we're trying to accomplish something."
Thomas A. Edison


Ford Products owned though the years:
1986 Escort GT Race Red
1998 Mustang GT Dark Green Satin
2002 SVT Focus Satin Silver
2006 Mustang GT Tungsten Grey

2010 Escape XLT AWD Sport Blue
2013 Taurus SHO Ruby Red

2017 Escape SE AWD Platinum White

Future Fords:
2021 Bronco

20xx Mustang GT350 or the like

 

199923.png
 
photo-thumb-15254.jpg








Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.


#2 OFFLINE   rmc523

rmc523

    Blue Oval Fanatic

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,155 posts
  • Joined 07-July 07
  • Location:Ft. Lauderdale, FL
  • Current Vehicle:2009 Flex Limited w/ AWD

Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:13 PM

How did they not know that was coming when they bought it.  Unless GM covered it up, they should've.


  • J-150 likes this

Car of the Day:

 

2019 Lincoln Nautilus Black Label

 

V23RLZi.jpg


#3 OFFLINE   J-150

J-150

    Newbie

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,891 posts
  • Joined 13-May 05
  • Location:NYC, Chicago, T.O, Montreal

Posted 05 December 2017 - 05:55 PM

How did they not know that was coming when they bought it.  Unless GM covered it up, they should've.


How would GM cover up lack of product development?
I want a 5.0 equipped Focus

#4 OFFLINE   tbone

tbone

    Blue Oval Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,322 posts
  • Joined 10-October 05
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • Location:Chicago, IL
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Raptor Supercrew

Posted 05 December 2017 - 09:22 PM

Im sorry, but unless there was some outright fraud I would say shame on PSA for not completing their due diligence.
  • jpd80 and jcartwright99 like this

#5 OFFLINE   rmc523

rmc523

    Blue Oval Fanatic

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,155 posts
  • Joined 07-July 07
  • Location:Ft. Lauderdale, FL
  • Current Vehicle:2009 Flex Limited w/ AWD

Posted 05 December 2017 - 11:16 PM

How would GM cover up lack of product development?

 

That's my point - if they didn't figure that out before purchasing, that's their fault.


  • jcartwright99 likes this

Car of the Day:

 

2019 Lincoln Nautilus Black Label

 

V23RLZi.jpg


#6 OFFLINE   J-150

J-150

    Newbie

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,891 posts
  • Joined 13-May 05
  • Location:NYC, Chicago, T.O, Montreal

Posted 06 December 2017 - 07:17 AM

 Agreed.
That's my point - if they didn't figure that out before purchasing, that's their fault.


I want a 5.0 equipped Focus

#7 ONLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 26,338 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Alpharetta, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Fusion Ti (Ruby Red)

Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:04 AM

It all comes down to whether GM hid something they knew about and didn't disclose or whether PSA just missed it during due diligence.   I doubt GM did anything that's legally actionable.



2013 Fusion Titanium (Ruby Red)
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)

#8 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

silvrsvt

    Bite my Shiny metal ass!

  • Moderator
  • 17,987 posts
  • Joined 03-October 02
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Current Vehicle:2017 Escape SE AWD/2013 Taurus SHO

Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:36 AM

From the article- The said there was changes in regulations at the last minute

 


Sources close to the issue tell Reuters that GM underestimated the public’s switch away from diesel-powered cars in its calculations. It also relied heavily on sales of the all-electric Opel Ampera-e (Chevrolet Bolt) to meet its emissions targets. The looming regulation change punishes each car in an automaker’s fleet for every extra gram of carbon dioxide it spews per kilometer, to the tune of $113 per vehicle. A crushing load of fines wouldn’t take long to pile up.

 

“People who had worked on the closing realized quite quickly that there were these big discrepancies,” one PSA source said. “They had been swept under the rug.”

 

Another source said that PSA stood to lose over $11,000 for each Ampera-e sold, making the company’s reliance on that one car doubly risky.

 

Sounds like GM might have been glossing over those issues


"Hell, there are no rules here-- we're trying to accomplish something."
Thomas A. Edison


Ford Products owned though the years:
1986 Escort GT Race Red
1998 Mustang GT Dark Green Satin
2002 SVT Focus Satin Silver
2006 Mustang GT Tungsten Grey

2010 Escape XLT AWD Sport Blue
2013 Taurus SHO Ruby Red

2017 Escape SE AWD Platinum White

Future Fords:
2021 Bronco

20xx Mustang GT350 or the like

 

199923.png
 
photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#9 ONLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 26,338 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Alpharetta, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Fusion Ti (Ruby Red)

Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:46 AM

The fact that they haven't yet filed a lawsuit tells me they probably had access to the information during due diligence but overlooked it.   Glossed over and swept under the rug aren't usually legally actionable.  Or they knew about it but thought they would have more time to fix it.



2013 Fusion Titanium (Ruby Red)
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)

#10 OFFLINE   jasonj80

jasonj80

    Junior Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 2,487 posts
  • Joined 12-December 04

Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:53 AM

From the article- The said there was changes in regulations at the last minute

 

 

 

Sounds like GM might have been glossing over those issues

Sorry but that falls under due diligence. PSA could have easily seen that GM was going to use Ampera-e to gain credits. PSA just realized it got a steaming pile of poo and is trying everything to save face, they want to close plants and streamline operations and this way they can make GM look bad and it is their fault. One of GM's biggest mistake in Bankruptcy was keeping Opel and closing Pontiac.

And lets be honest no one in Europe saw the switch away from Diesel as well as the shift to SUVs. VW managed to kill a large portion of the diesel market worldwide in about 2 weeks. 

They thought they were smarter than GM and could easily make it profitable, that they were smarter than anyone and it would be an easy fix for their management. It was very French of them.


  • jpd80 likes this

#11 ONLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 26,338 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Alpharetta, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Fusion Ti (Ruby Red)

Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:00 AM

Sorry but that falls under due diligence. PSA could have easily seen that GM was going to use Ampera-e to gain credits. PSA just realized it got a steaming pile of poo and is trying everything to save face, they want to close plants and streamline operations and this way they can make GM look bad and it is their fault. One of GM's biggest mistake in Bankruptcy was keeping Opel and closing Pontiac.

And lets be honest no one in Europe saw the switch away from Diesel as well as the shift to SUVs. VW managed to kill a large portion of the diesel market worldwide in about 2 weeks. 

They thought they were smarter than GM and could easily make it profitable, that they were smarter than anyone and it would be an easy fix for their management. It was very French of them.

 

 

Bingo.


  • jpd80 likes this

2013 Fusion Titanium (Ruby Red)
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)

#12 OFFLINE   rmc523

rmc523

    Blue Oval Fanatic

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,155 posts
  • Joined 07-July 07
  • Location:Ft. Lauderdale, FL
  • Current Vehicle:2009 Flex Limited w/ AWD

Posted 06 December 2017 - 11:24 AM

Sorry but that falls under due diligence. PSA could have easily seen that GM was going to use Ampera-e to gain credits. PSA just realized it got a steaming pile of poo and is trying everything to save face, they want to close plants and streamline operations and this way they can make GM look bad and it is their fault. One of GM's biggest mistake in Bankruptcy was keeping Opel and closing Pontiac.

And lets be honest no one in Europe saw the switch away from Diesel as well as the shift to SUVs. VW managed to kill a large portion of the diesel market worldwide in about 2 weeks. 

They thought they were smarter than GM and could easily make it profitable, that they were smarter than anyone and it would be an easy fix for their management. It was very French of them.

 

Let's not pretend keeping Pontiac would've been any sort of good idea.


  • ehaase, grbeck, silvrsvt and 1 other like this

Car of the Day:

 

2019 Lincoln Nautilus Black Label

 

V23RLZi.jpg


#13 OFFLINE   grbeck

grbeck

    Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,266 posts
  • Joined 14-July 00

Posted 06 December 2017 - 11:27 AM

If there was a last-minute change in the regulations, how is that GM's fault? GM management wasn't in charge of drafting and ratifying the regulations.

 

A big issue here is that this deal only works if there is considerable platform consolidation. That generally entails consolidation of facilities and layoffs of workers. That is hard to do in European countries.

 

And the French and German governments do not want the factory closures and layoffs to happen within their respective borders.


Edited by grbeck, 06 December 2017 - 11:32 AM.


#14 OFFLINE   jasonj80

jasonj80

    Junior Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 2,487 posts
  • Joined 12-December 04

Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:16 PM

 

Let's not pretend keeping Pontiac would've been any sort of good idea.

When you look at where their customers went it would have been, it was assumed in metrics they would stay in the GM family, unlike Saturn which GM knew it would lose as customers. Problem is ex Pontiac customers also fled the GM. However management made the best decision they could at the time. If they did it today with the knowledge known; Buick would have been killed and what are Buick's today would be Pontiac.



#15 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

fuzzymoomoo

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,069 posts
  • Joined 18-February 14
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Southeast Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Focus, 2015 Focus

Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:29 PM

When you look at where their customers went it would have been, it was assumed in metrics they would stay in the GM family, unlike Saturn which GM knew it would lose as customers. Problem is ex Pontiac customers also fled the GM. However management made the best decision they could at the time. If they did it today with the knowledge known; Buick would have been killed and what are Buick's today would be Pontiac.

Even at the time I thought it was stupid to kill Pontiac and keep Buick.

What? What happened?


#16 OFFLINE   rmc523

rmc523

    Blue Oval Fanatic

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,155 posts
  • Joined 07-July 07
  • Location:Ft. Lauderdale, FL
  • Current Vehicle:2009 Flex Limited w/ AWD

Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:46 PM

When you look at where their customers went it would have been, it was assumed in metrics they would stay in the GM family, unlike Saturn which GM knew it would lose as customers. Problem is ex Pontiac customers also fled the GM. However management made the best decision they could at the time. If they did it today with the knowledge known; Buick would have been killed and what are Buick's today would be Pontiac.

 

So you're saying the current crop of Buick products with a Pontiac badge would be doing better?

 

Buick was kept because of China, otherwise it would've been gone too.


Car of the Day:

 

2019 Lincoln Nautilus Black Label

 

V23RLZi.jpg


#17 ONLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 26,338 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Alpharetta, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Fusion Ti (Ruby Red)

Posted 06 December 2017 - 05:55 PM

Buick was kept because of China - plain and simple.

Pontiac was the answer to a question nobody was asking. Anything that Pontiac could possible sell could sell just as well with a bow tie. Especially since Chevy already had Camaro and Corvette.

Buick could easily go away. Split the vehicles between Chevy and Cadillac.
  • ehaase likes this

2013 Fusion Titanium (Ruby Red)
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)

#18 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

fuzzymoomoo

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,069 posts
  • Joined 18-February 14
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Southeast Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Focus, 2015 Focus

Posted 06 December 2017 - 05:59 PM

Buick could easily go away. Split the vehicles between Chevy and Cadillac.

not even that, just do the same thing Ford did when they got rid of Mercury, just make the top end Chevys nicer and give the additional R&D to Caddilac.
  • ehaase likes this

What? What happened?


#19 OFFLINE   jasonj80

jasonj80

    Junior Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 2,487 posts
  • Joined 12-December 04

Posted 06 December 2017 - 07:22 PM

 

So you're saying the current crop of Buick products with a Pontiac badge would be doing better?

 

Buick was kept because of China, otherwise it would've been gone too.

Absolutely, if the current crop of Buick's had Pontiac badges in the US sales probably would be double if not more. Buick could stay for China but in the US it should have died. Pontiac never had an issue selling to younger buyers, they were actually attracted to the brand. Buick has spent billions trying to find a market and appeal to younger buyer and it hasn't resonated. You can always sell an old person a young persons car, you can't sell a young person an old person car.



#20 OFFLINE   atomcat68

atomcat68

    Blue Oval Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,766 posts
  • Joined 02-May 05
  • Location:Weymouth, MA

Posted 06 December 2017 - 07:24 PM

Sounds like PSA is getting cold feet too late and realized what a bad deal they entered into. They have 5 divisions that occupy the same position in the market place. The brands dont offer different products like Jeep is for SUV's Fait are cars, nor do they step up in price like VW and GM. This is like Ford buying Dodge and Chrysler so they can sell Fusions and Escapes in 3 different brands.

 

The worst part about this is that Opel and Vauxhall have been declining for 20 years with no hope in sight!

 

PSA  made a very stupid choice and will pay the price. They could have used the money to enter the American market and compete in a market where they at least have a chance to expand. They could have offered to build cars to sell in Chrysler's existing dealerships under their brand names to replace Dodge, or made an offer to Mitsubishi to buy out their dealer network and replace the Mitsubishi cars over the next few model years with their own. It would not take much to federalize their cars due to many of them sharing Opel platforms which make Buicks.


My latest movie project: https://www.facebook...93579443992689/

 









Custom Search


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy Terms of Service ·