RichardJensen Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 How much money do you think they blew on those two prototypes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 How much money do you think they blew on those two prototypes? I don't know but there's been 2 more production delays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 The Tesla Semi, the automaker's all-electric transport truck, will retail starting at $150,000 for a version with 300 miles of range, and will also be available in a $150,000 version with 500 miles of range. Interested parties can pre-order them with a base reservation price of $20,000 or, if they want a "Founders Series," they can get one for $200,000, with the entire balance due for a reservation to be among the first in line to get one of the initial 1,000 production Semis. This pricing, newly revealed via the Tesla website, is actually incredibly competitive when measured against diesel truck costs. Entry level diesel trucks star at around $100,000, and Tesla promises cost saving of upwards of $200,000 over the life of the truck, based on fuel consumption and electricity vs. diesel costs. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-apos-electric-semi-truck-163857706.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 ................................................"entire balance due for a reservation".................................................... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsecured_creditor If you do this you are basically giving Tesla an interest free unsecured $200,000 loan. You are giving an interest free unsecured loan to the corporate equivalent of that guy who took out a third mortgage and refinanced with an ARM 12 years ago in order to buy a new SUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 About 45% of the class 8 semi trucks sales in the US are day cabs, meaning they are never driven long distances. That number is even higher if you include class 6 and 7 tractors (i.e. like Ford-650/750) that are used by distributors of all kinds for regional transportation. You don't need a nationwide network of chargers to operate EV trucks. Just like you don't need a nationwide network of charges to operate EV cars (since most people never travel that far by car anyway). BTW, it's a lot easier to setup nationwide truck recharging network than for cars... most of the cross country truck routes are already covered by truck stops. 500 miles range is plenty for fixed route fleet operators like Walmart, McDonald's, beer/beverage distributors, or ironically... gas refiners. Trucks will recharge overnight at regional distribution centers and top up at delivery locations (stores) while it is being loaded and unloaded. The production issue is another matter... Tesla still hasn't shown that it can make anything in high volume. But the boutique nature of class 8 trucks may actually be better business for Tesla than building 500,000 cars. I get what you're saying by zoning in on the shorter distances traveled by more local operators with trucks that return to depots more regularly each day / over night compared to interstate transport companies. Consider all of those trucks for a moment and which locations they're in and we soon get a picture of at least recharging at depots or along major interstate routes to guarantee coverage for both groups, especially if there's a lot of hot seating where a sleeper cab is not required or used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) ................................................"entire balance due for a reservation".................................................... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsecured_creditor If you do this you are basically giving Tesla an interest free unsecured $200,000 loan. You are giving an interest free unsecured loan to the corporate equivalent of that guy who took out a third mortgage and refinanced with an ARM 12 years ago in order to buy a new SUV. Tesla is reaching further and further, at some point these people are just going to say no. Faith in a new era technical company is one thing but that amount of leverage is getting scary. I mean, how many of tomorrow's buyers is Tesla prepared to mortgage in order to satisfy today's ego? They must be getting close to a tipping point and going to the well so many times should be sending red flags... Edited November 24, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 I mean, how many of tomorrow's buyers is Tesla prepared to mortgage in order to satisfy today's ego? All of them. It's a de facto Ponzi scheme at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) Tesla Ponzi sounds like a roadster... Ther's a hole in the bucket dear Elon dear Elon... Edited November 24, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 While he's betting big, he also controls almost the entirety of his supplier stack. He's got volume production up for the S and the X. The 3 is definitely having it's problems, but the product is done and he's getting some out of the door. The Semi has had prototypes running for a good chunk of the year, and will demand a far lower rate of production. The Roadster isn't even going to start production for about a year or so. Unlike a lot of the other also ran attempts at starting new vehicles in production (Fisker, Eleo, etc), Tesla has an actual revenue stream. His products that are in volume production are more than covering their costs. His money burn isn't on actual operational fundamentals, it's on R&D. This is exactly what one would expect for a new entrant into an established market that's striving to be a technology leader. What makes people so scared of Tesla is how bullish Musk has been with them. He's pushing far harder than any of the companies that have come before him. This is a wise decision as attention spans these days are VERY short. If you don't push hard and promise the sun, moon and stars, people will forget you. It's absolutely a risk, but this is far from a scam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Here’s the rub about the R&D cost argument - you don’t cut R&D costs after you launch the vehicles. You have to continue investing in the technology and now you have to engineer new platforms and new top hats. If anything R&D costs stay the same or go up. Most of us don’t think he can make a profit at current prices and if he raises prices to the point they can make a profit then sales will drop like a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Heres the rub about the R&D cost argument - you dont cut R&D costs after you launch the vehicles. You have to continue investing in the technology and now you have to engineer new platforms and new top hats. If anything R&D costs stay the same or go up. I keep wondering if the S will rot on the vine... (other than gimmicky OTA add ons) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 $200,000,000 PRIVATE PLACEMENT TESLA ANNOUNCES NEW JUNIOR JUNIOR JUNIOR JUNIOR UNSECURED DEBENTURES "FOUNDERS SERIES" 1,000 $200,000 NOTES Payable sometime after 2020, nobody has the slightest idea when, with a new class 8 truck. Maybe. DIVIDENDS None INTEREST None 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Either way, you get to be part of something big that will be talked about for years....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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