fuzzymoomoo Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 The update would be the RS block. The Mustang came before it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Wait a second. The other thing that caught my eye is that if you look closely at what is now being called the Mustang block it sure looks like somebody added material around the cylinders and then drilled coolant passages in that material. You can still see the original outline of the block casting. I also found an article where Livernois Motorsports states that they developed a billet aluminum insert to fill the gap at the top of the cylinders on the open deck factory block. The Livernois Motorsports 2.3L Ecoboost deck brace is designed from a single billet piece of 6061-T6 aluminum and is machined to perfectly fit into the 2.3L Ecoboost block. Exacting tolerances are used to ensure a precision fit, as well as the best performance. Using high strength aluminum allows the brace to closely match the factory aluminum's expansion rate, which allows the brace to expand and contract at the same rate as the block, keeping the bore geometry as it should be. Aluminum is preferred over steel for the insert, as steel inserts can pose an issue with expansion and negatively impacting the geometry of the surrounding bore and deck structure. Additionally, the brace is machined with cooling passages that match the factory 2.3L Ecoboost head gasket, as well as other machining steps to ensure that the head gasket is properly cooled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Here's my personal take on all this and I could be completely wrong but this is what makes the most sense to me. 1. The Mustang engine block is an open deck design and it uses the V-groove coolant passage between adjacent cylinders. 2. The RS block is also an open deck design but it was modified to use a drilled coolant passage between adjacent cylinders in lieu of the V-groove design. 3. The supplier of the head gaskets shipped gaskets designed for the V-groove coolant passages and they were used on Focus RS engines which do not have V-grooves. Those gaskets failed for that reason. 4. Ford Performance sells a modified block that apparently includes the Livernois water jacket insert. To coupe3w's point there is an issue with the open deck design but I contend that it only becomes an issue at boost levels well above the factory levels and that is what the Livernois insert is designed to correct. The fact that Ford includes it in their high performance replacement block (not even sure if that's true) does not mean that it is an issue on a stock engine in either the Mustang EB or the Focus RS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Correct, there are discreet differences between the two blocks and after comparing with the gaskets, I see why the Mustang EB gasket failed on the RS block for the reasons stated in the gasket pictures I posted. Scary to think two block can be so close and a slip up with the wrong gasket causes this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Correct, there are discreet differences between the two blocks and after comparing with the gaskets, I see why the Mustang EB gasket failed on the RS block for the reasons stated in the gasket pictures I posted. Scary to think two block can be so close and a slip up with the wrong gasket causes this. You know what they say in church basements right?...............BINGO! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) Something else that's interesting: The first photo you posted of an engine block is the same photo used on the Late Model Restorations site for the 2.3L EB Ford Performance block. Sure looks to me like that block still uses the V-groove design along with the water jacket insert. Most other websites that sell that exact same part number (M-6010-23T) either show the stock Mustang block without the water jacket insert or they have no picture at all. https://lmr.com/item/M601023T/ford-performance-23-ecoboost-engine-block-m-6010-23t Edited January 1, 2018 by blksn8k2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Ford Performance Ecoboost Engine Block Get the perfect foundation for your Ecoboost engine build with this Ford Performance 2.3L Ecoboost engine block! This is the production cylinder block that rolls off the assembly line of all Ecoboost Mustangs. When it comes time to build up your Ecoboost engine, a new engine block is the best starting point. The engine block includes new freeze plugs, dowels, and other production hardware needed for an engine build up. This block is a direct replacement for 2015-2017 Mustang Ecoboost, but great for any vehicle swapping an Ecoboost engine in. This block is the one they show on the Ford Performance web site under engines. So I don't know which is right? Confusing yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Something else that's interesting: The first photo you posted of an engine block is the same photo used on the Late Model Restorations site for the 2.3L EB Ford Performance block. Sure looks to me like that block still uses the V-groove design along with the water jacket insert. Most other websites that sell that exact same part number (M-6010-23T) either show the stock Mustang block without the water jacket insert or they have no picture at all. https://lmr.com/item/M601023T/ford-performance-23-ecoboost-engine-block-m-6010-23t This block is different than the EcoBoost take a close look at the left cylinder near the water pipe. There it is not cut back like on the "Mustang" block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 My guess is the reasons that a lot of Ford Performance Parts vendors do not even have a picture of the M-6010-23T block is because of the head gasket issues and the confusion with the cause and fix as well as the lack of consistency in which block goes where and which picture matches which block. A bit of a cluster@#$^ if you ask me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 My guess is the reasons that a lot of Ford Performance Parts vendors do not even have a picture of the M-6010-23T block is because of the head gasket issues and the confusion with the cause and fix as well as the lack of consistency in which block goes where and which picture matches which block. A bit of a cluster@#$^ if you ask me. I agree! It's so confusing know wonder they have the wrong head gaskets, if that is truly the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/ford-issues-recall-fix-blown-152000180.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 For what they paid for a Focus, if their engine fails the pressure test, they deserve new cars, not new engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 For what they paid for a Focus, if their engine fails the pressure test, they deserve new cars, not new engines. I dont understand that logic. My house had a Window glass fail. Does that mean I get a new house because I paid so much for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 ^^ I agree. Replace the head or motor and be on your way. There is nothing wrong with the rest of the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I think what pioneer is saying is hes not a fan of the idea of paying over $40k for a Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I think what pioneer is saying is hes not a fan of the idea of paying over $40k for a Focus. Oh, I'm a fan. Trust me when I say, if my commute was half of what it currently is, I'd have one. My point is, if I'm spending 40k on a car like the RS, I expect perfection. I certainly don't want it after having the engine torn apart, wondering if the next time I punch the throttle the head is going to fly off. You build a halo car like that and screw up, you better make or right in the eyes of the people willing to spend that kind of money on it. It's not a window. It's not even a regular production vehicle, which Ford can't get right either with that crappy transmission. It's supposed to be better than the rest and their resale value is going to plummet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Oh, I'm a fan. Trust me when I say, if my commute was half of what it currently is, I'd have one. My point is, if I'm spending 40k on a car like the RS, I expect perfection. I certainly don't want it after having the engine torn apart, wondering if the next time I punch the throttle the head is going to fly off. You build a halo car like that and screw up, you better make or right in the eyes of the people willing to spend that kind of money on it. It's not a window. It's not even a regular production vehicle, which Ford can't get right either with that crappy transmission. It's supposed to be better than the rest and their resale value is going to plummet. So with that being said, you'd want the same thing done to your Mustang Cobra with the intake issue or with your GT350 and the transmission cooler issue? Um ok....just seems like your bad mouthing the company your working for because they aren't treating you right for some reason.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Um ok....just seems like your bad mouthing the company your working for because they aren't treating you right for some reason....How many RS owners, after having their engine ripped apart, would you expect to be repeat Ford customers? My guess would be a very low percentage. And I'm being treated fine. Ford would basically have to close the Rouge plant to affect me, and I can't see even Hatchet screwing the company up that bad. Take your blue tinted glasses off and see it from the customers perspective. They get a new car, the car they should have had from the beginning, Ford takes the others back and fixes their screw up and you resell as CPO. Everybody wins. Edited January 24, 2018 by Pioneer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Do you think Ferrari would give you a brand new $250K 488 if they had to replace the heads on the engine under warranty? Has nothing to do with how much you paid. A warranty repair is a warranty repair even if they have to replace the engine and transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 They'd be replacing it for the next owner as I'd be getting rid of it, not that I'd be crazy enough to buy a Ferrari in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Really my issue is having a competent tech that takes pride in his workmanship. Then I dont care if they pull it apart. I had to put a body harness in a Taurus a long time ago. I told the advisor not to let the customer see it. She came to the back and saw it in a million pieces and started crying. After I was done and put all back together. She came back and apologized and said she couldnt tell and never would have believed it was apart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Really my issue is having a competent tech that takes pride in his workmanship. Then I dont care if they pull it apart. I had to put a body harness in a Taurus a long time ago. I told the advisor not to let the customer see it. She came to the back and saw it in a million pieces and started crying. After I was done and put all back together. She came back and apologized and said she couldnt tell and never would have believed it was apart. My issue would be, ok. I paid 40k to be one of the first to have this bad ass car and Ford couldn't even get a gasket right. I wonder what else they missed in the beginning, and have since fixed, and I'm going to be stuck with it when my warranty runs out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 My issue would be, ok. I paid 40k to be one of the first to have this bad ass car and Ford couldn't even get a gasket right. I wonder what else they missed in the beginning, and have since fixed, and I'm going to be stuck with it when my warranty runs out. You couldnt really buy anything then. Anything mass produced can be a problem. Lifes too short to worry about everything. Most of the time you can pitch a fit and ford could give you an esp for your troubles. In that mindset, What about the corvettes with spun bearings and need an engine? Same scenario? Or the KIA where the curtain airbags were installed wrong side and had to be replaced? If they put the wrong side airbag on, what else did they screw up? Im not defending this issue. Im stating that as long as its corrected I dont understand the problem. The only situation is where it cant be repaired, Such as the DCT, that a replacement vehicle would be validated to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 So what was the real culprit? Bad design, wrong gasket, improper installation, or all of the above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 So what was the real culprit? Bad design, wrong gasket, improper installation, or all of the above? Wrong Gasket for the head type Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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