Kev-Mo Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 And - I strongly agree that Ford is far more than fashionably late to the party - 4Runner is selling like hotcakes and it is really not that nice. Problem with being so late - as is the tone of this thread - if it is anything less than earth shattering it will be a disappointment. I am good with vehicles - I can wait a few years - but gosh, I hope they get it just right! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) We've been raging against Ford's tardy product refreshes for years, they seem to get away with it and still earn enough profit to surprise most. So I have to wonder if all those car and utility sales combined add up to significant profit compared to F Series... I note recently that Toyota's North American Quarterly profit was only a fraction of Ford's so maybe thre's not a whole lot of profit tied up in those ginormous Toyota car and Utility sales.. Sure we all want nice new fresh product that excites and competes with other brands but does that ultimately serve to drain company coffers more than filling them? I'm still annoyed that Ford didn't refresh Focus 18 months ago with ROW EB 1.5 strategy, the engineering had been done but Ford saw fit not to defend / support the car in the market. Why is it that Ford seem bent on offering basic "S" models in Focus and Fusion that very few customers want instead of making the popular SE so much more attractive to buyers.. Edited November 8, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Some good news - to go with all the rumors. I recently had a meeting with an iconic company from the Pacific Northwest that is famous for making a key component for 'real' off-road vehicles. They use the Supply Chain Software that is my area of expertise. We have a consulting and support contract with them. They were discussing of ramping up production of a critical component for two new Ford vehicles. I learned a lot of information - dates and production numbers. Professionally, nobody is ever sure about what they can and cannot say -but in that case I think it best to keep quiet. But I am pretty sure I can say it is happening! anything you can share privately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) I remember having that same conversation here many many years ago when the "entry crossover" segment was just beginning and the CRV and RAV4 were already in the market, and most of us wonder "WTF?? Come OUT already!".... So yes, I can sense similar tension and frustration. It best be good... Edited November 8, 2017 by ANTAUS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) I'm not concerned about when it is going to be released. My bigger concern is when they announced it vs the time it is going to be released. There has been zero new info released about either truck since the announcement occurred and this year's show circuit. That means there was no (good) reason announcing it when they did and not wait a year to have something with substance. They should have waited until this year and shown off a light concept (or heck, even the dumb powerpoint slide) to go with the announcement. But a whole year to sit on a picture of the desert with a logo is kinda dumb marketing. Edited November 8, 2017 by Anthony 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Production Ranger to be shown January at Detroit show? Bronco the next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I remember having that same conversation here many many years ago when the "entry crossover" segment was just beginning and the CRV and RAV4 were already in the market, and most of us wonder "WTF?? Come OUT already!".... So yes, I can sense similar tension and frustration. It best be good... This was also the case with the 'Retro T-Bird' back in the early '00's. From concept to production was so excruciating long - the excitement wore off and 'retro' was going out of style! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I'm not concerned about when it is going to be released. My bigger concern is when they announced it vs the time it is going to be released. There has been zero new info released about either truck since the announcement occurred and this year's show circuit. That means there was no (good) reason announcing it when they did and not wait a year to have something with substance. They should have waited until this year and shown off a light concept (or heck, even the dumb powerpoint slide) to go with the announcement. But a whole year to sit on a picture of the desert with a logo is kinda dumb marketing. Agreed. Like I said before, it was because they stupidly launched other vehicles elsewhere, meaning they needed something to announce at NAIAS. I'm sure we'll see something at one of this years' shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 That means there was no (good) reason announcing it when they did and not wait a year to have something with substance. As I said yesterday, it was to appease the plant workers. At the time of NAIAS this year frustration was so high it was starting to cause problems between workers and management. Their plan worked for about 2 months until the went full radio silence again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) The Zeta based Camaro was shown in January 2006, then forever until new ones were for sale. Seems like there are still lots of committee meetings just to waste time and obtain frequent flyer miles. Edited November 8, 2017 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 When it comes to capacity. Don't worry. The Ranger will be in short supply. When it comes to Bronco though, I would not be to shocked if it gets pushed back. But you would think that working in an assembly plant. People with a ton of time would understand the difference between MY vs CY. So that may be some BS I was told. I think you may have missed my point. I was not implying that they will not be able to meet demand. Once they start production they should be able to do that by adding more shifts if demand warrants it. The point I was trying to make was that instead of continuing to build cars that not enough customers want they could have been building trucks and SUVs that people do want. Ford is sometimes too slow or timid to commit their manufacturing capacity in a better direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I think you may have missed my point. I was not implying that they will not be able to meet demand. Once they start production they should be able to do that by adding more shifts if demand warrants it. The point I was trying to make was that instead of continuing to build cars that not enough customers want they could have been building trucks and SUVs that people do want. Ford is sometimes too slow or timid to commit their manufacturing capacity in a better direction. MAP/Ranger will be one shift until the Bronco comes on line. Demand be damned. But of course, Everything @ Ford is subject to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Given how dire things were getting, we should just be glad they're coming. If not for one or two key people in the glass house, the project never would have moved forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Dire things WERE getting? They are dire NOW! Years late to launch a product that will flourish with cheap gas and increasing demand for trucks and SUV's. Instead we pump out mechanically flawed cars that you have to put so much cash on the hood, you are losing money with every sale. Things were not dire years ago, it's time is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) Dire things WERE getting? They are dire NOW! Years late to launch a product that will flourish with cheap gas and increasing demand for trucks and SUV's. Instead we pump out mechanically flawed cars that you have to put so much cash on the hood, you are losing money with every sale. Things were not dire years ago, it's time is now. As bad as things seem now, as far as I know it could have been much worse. Their product cadence lags the industry everywhere except F-Series and full sized utilities, but at least there are things outside those segments coming. Edit to add: The full failure of The Hair won't be completely visible for a few more years. He was able to quietly dismantle the positive aspects of post-carpocalypse Ford while magnifying the negatives. Edited November 9, 2017 by PREMiERdrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 As bad as things seem now, as far as I know it could have been much worse. Their product cadence lags the industry everywhere except F-Series and full sized utilities, but at least there are things outside those segments coming. Edit to add: The full failure of The Hair won't be completely visible for a few more years. He was able to quietly dismantle the positive aspects of post-carpocalypse Ford while magnifying the negatives. what's sad about that is Hackett will ultimately get blamed for it in the court of public opinion. Yep, he's the fall guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) I notice that Ford no longer talks about best in class fuel economy and affordable quality vehicles, maybe those things are no longer seen as important or even achievable with the current showroom. Edited November 9, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 what's sad about that is Hackett will ultimately get blamed for it in the court of public opinion. Yep, he's the fall guy. Don't feel sad. He's very well paid to take the fall and he's smart enough to know what he got himself into. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I notice that Ford no longer talks about best in class fuel economy and affordable quality vehicles, maybe those things are no longer seen as important or even achievable with the current showroom. Ford. Where quantity is Job 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) Ford. Where quantity is Job 1. That's not the same thing, I wasn't talking about build quality Quality vehicles are the class below premium vehicles. Edited November 9, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 lol Well it is a struggle...trust me I work at a place that has ~85 employees in a small factory and I see this every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Edit to add: The full failure of The Hair won't be completely visible for a few more years. He was able to quietly dismantle the positive aspects of post-carpocalypse Ford while magnifying the negatives. This is a damn shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Edit to add: The full failure of The Hair won't be completely visible for a few more years. He was able to quietly dismantle the positive aspects of post-carpocalypse Ford while magnifying the negatives. Hmm, I'm wondering what that all entails. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Ford. Where quantity is Job 1.* *whenever the budget allows for it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) Quality vehicles are the class below premium vehicles. And after taking my wife's 2017 Escape Titanium in today for the 6th time, I personally believe Ford doesn't make "quality" vehicles anymore. But they sure do make a lot of them. The Oasis report will be close to 2 pages long when they're done with it. Edited November 9, 2017 by Pioneer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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