rmc523 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 New Expedition and Navigator are excellent and among the best vehicles Ford makes. Definitely competitive with GM's SUVs. Ford and GM now both have the most appealing entries in the segment. The Fords are better in some areas such as interior space, while the GMs are better in others such as V8 engine availability. Can't go wrong with either company if you want a really good full size SUV. I don't think Ford will get very many conquest customers from GM with the new Expedition and Navigator. Suburban/Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade customers are very loyal to GM. But Ford could end up killing Toyota Sequoia and Nissan Armada (Patrol) in the U.S., both of which are dated and not competitive with Ford and GM. Armada just got redesigned as a QX80 clone (a fact that no review mentioned). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Armada just got redesigned as a QX80 clone (a fact that no review mentioned). Yes sir, Nissan Armada and Infiniti QX80 in the U.S. are both versions of the Y62 Nissan Patrol. This generation Patrol debuted in 2010 and got a light refresh in 2014, though the U.S. didn't get the Nissan version until 2016. Nissan originally planned to make the Armada a variant of the second generation Titan pickup truck. They dumped that plan and decided to rebadge the Nissan Patrol as Armada for U.S. customers instead. I like the high quality and luxurious interior in the current Nissan Armada and Infiniti QX80, but the design inside and out is getting old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) I agree, the GM triplets are entrenched, the Expedition and Navigator are great vehicles though. They'll sell well, but won't likely make a huge dent in GM sales. Initially, I think Expedition and Navigator will do well. After the excitement dies down, it may come down to whoever is willing to put the most cash on the hood. GM has a lot at stake, so may be willing to do whatever it takes until they bring their new models out. Edited November 9, 2017 by MKX1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Initially, I think Expedition and Navigator will do well. After the excitement dies down, it may come down to whoever is willing to put the most cash on the hood. GM has a lot at stake, so may be willing to do whatever it takes until they bring their new models out. When you are talking about vehicles with sticker prices bumping $80k, it's not all about the cash on the hood. On the lower trim models, sure, but the higher trim models will go to those who value more than just the bottom dollar. That's very evident with the sales of upper trim levels of F-Series trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 When you are talking about vehicles with sticker prices bumping $80k, it's not all about the cash on the hood. On the lower trim models, sure, but the higher trim models will go to those who value more than just the bottom dollar. That's very evident with the sales of upper trim levels of F-Series trucks. Exactly, Limited and lower trims will likely get good incentives, while Platinum may see very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) Nov 1 inventory for '17 Navigator was 1,400 and I'm pretty sure that number is now much lower with around 700 with dealers nation wide at the moment. Most of those remaining vehicles are Select (503) and Reserve (189) Dealers only have around 56 of the 2018 Navigators at present.... Edited November 10, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Just drove by my local Lincoln dealer this morning just to see - no 2018s yet. Their website says they have a 2018 Black Label Navigator L in Rhapsody blue with the Yacht Club theme - price $101K, so it must be loaded. So it would seem it hasn't arrived yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 Just drove by my local Lincoln dealer this morning just to see - no 2018s yet. Their website says they have a 2018 Black Label Navigator L in Rhapsody blue with the Yacht Club theme - price $101K, so it must be loaded. So it would seem it hasn't arrived yet. they could be keeping it inside the showroom as a centerpiece at the moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Do they have a real photo, or stock? I find that typically until they post a real photo they don't really have the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 It's a stock photo right now, which is part of why I don't think it's arrived yet. I would've driven close to the showroom to see in, but they still had the "blocker" vehicles parked in the entrances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Do they have a real photo, or stock? I find that typically until they post a real photo they don't really have the vehicle. Some Ford dealerships in the Chicago area posted photos of 2018 Navigators they have in stock. Here are some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I just saw a black Navigator in the wild on the Eisenhower right now. I love everything about it except Im not terribly enamored with the big chrome lightbar on the rear tailgate. Either Lincoln needs to come out with a blacked out version or the aftermarket needs to come up with a remedy for that, as I am not a big chrome fan. I would like to replace our QX 80 with a Navigator, so I could live with it, but I would like to see an alternative for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 8, 2017 Author Share Posted December 8, 2017 I just saw a black Navigator in the wild on the Eisenhower right now. I love everything about it except Im not terribly enamored with the big chrome lightbar on the rear tailgate. Either Lincoln needs to come out with a blacked out version or the aftermarket needs to come up with a remedy for that, as I am not a big chrome fan. I would like to replace our QX 80 with a Navigator, so I could live with it, but I would like to see an alternative for that. Black label models have the fender badge smoked, maybe the rest of the chrome is the same and you could get one after the fact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) Right now, Ford has the Super Duty production in high gear, I don't think we'll see too much in the way of Expedition and Navigator production until things start to slow up for winter... Edited December 8, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I would hope they are not artificially suppressing supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) Do they have a real photo, or stock? I find that typically until they post a real photo they don't really have the vehicle. Most Ford dealers don't shoot photos of their new vehicle inventory and instead rely on stock images. I shoot up to 32 photos of every new and used vehicle in stock and often have new vehicle photos online within hours of a vehicle's arrival. Edited December 9, 2017 by ice-capades 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Most Ford dealers don't shoot photos of their new vehicle inventory and instead rely on stock images. I shoot up to 32 photos of every new and used vehicle in stock and often have new vehicle photos online within hours of a vehicle's arrival. Thats a good practice. Thats what people want to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I would hope they are not artificially suppressing supply. With a short model year, it wouldn't be surprising. Same with Expedition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Most Ford dealers don't shoot photos of their new vehicle inventory and instead rely on stock images. I shoot up to 32 photos of every new and used vehicle in stock and often have new vehicle photos online within hours of a vehicle's arrival. Ah, you're seeking to establish a connection between potential buyer and an actual vehicle. It's nice to see someone with actual selling skills.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) I would hope they are not artificially suppressing supply. In a way... the Super Duty is selling red hot at the moment and Ford is pressing hard in that direction while it only builds the Utes in small amounts. They maximize SD sales while burning through discounted '17 Expedition and Navigator stock, salted with a few of the new '18 models. See, the '17s already have a 3.5 EB and 10AT 6AT as standard so the strategy has to be offering these with incentives but not too much price gap to the '18s so that buyers also keep them in sight too.... a complex balancing act for sure, one that drives sales staff nuts. At the moment, there's ~ 3500 '17s and ~ 1,000 18s showing nation wide... discounts seem to be in the order of $8K - $12K Edited December 10, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 The '17s don't have the 3.5/10-speed combo, do they?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) The '17s don't have the 3.5/10-speed combo, do they?? Correct , adjusted my post to reflect that they had 6AT.(incorrectly assumed a switched along with '17 F150) Point being the older model is still well equiped with decent performance so seen as economic at discounted price. At the moment, I'm seeing $8,000 to $12,000 discounts on mid and high series vehicles.... Edited December 10, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Ah, you're seeking to establish a connection between potential buyer and an actual vehicle. It's nice to see someone with actual selling skills.. The tough part is all the time it takes... Locate vehicle, park it behind the dealership to shoot photos against a neutral background, save photo with VIN number and order designation (VIN_01, VIN_02, etc.), brand dealership logo in lower left corner of photo w/outer glow effect, upload photos for all vehicles as a batch file via FTP site. Then run Smart Vincent to get accurate/latest rebate information and post rebates, dealer discount and Internet price online. It takes a good 45+ minutes for each vehicle but I think it's important to show prospective customers the actual vehicle and we get a lot of positive feedback which helps make it all worthwhile! Photos are shoot in a specific order that's time efficient for the shooting and processing sequence... Front 3/4 Passenger Side, Front, Passenger Side, Rear 3/4, Rear, Front Driver's Seat (Remove plastic so viewer can see the actual seat color, etc.), Rear Seat, Instrument Panel, Exterior... Driver's Side Mirror, Trunk, Front Wheel Close-Up, Front Grille/Headlamp Assembly Close-Up, Rear Taillights w/Ford & Model Nomenclature, Rear Close-Up, Instrument Panel Close-Up, Odometer (Used), Navigation Screen, SiriusXM Screen, Climate Screen, SYNC Settings Screen, Rear Camera Screen Image, Center Stack (Audio, Climate, etc.), Console w/Shift Lever, Key Fob Close-Up, Start/Stop Button, Steering Wheel Controls (Close-Up), Steering Wheel, Lighting/AutoLamp, Power Windows/Locks/Mirrors, Power Moonroof, Driver's Side Mirror (Driver's Perspective). Used vehicle photos also include a photo of the Manufacturer's VIN/Certification Plate which is necessary for Ford ESP's. Vehicles that are detailed for Showroom display are re-shot and uploaded to the websites to replace the original photos. Edited December 10, 2017 by ice-capades 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) I've seen this happen many times before where an actual vehicle in stock photo like your doing suddenly becomes "my car" in the mind of the buyer.... I've even done it myself and I will never again underestimate the power of emotional connection in a sale. Once that happens, buyers will mostly look past any perceived sale impediments and "just want the bloody thing, make it happen". Those photos are time consuming but to the end buyer, they are like magnets to the soul and dollars in the dealer's pocket.. Edited December 11, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Random, but the posts about dealers and sales and whatnot made me think of him - haven't seen Deanh around in a while. You still out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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