SoonerLS Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I have difficulty wrapping my mind around the fact that people want to abdicate everything to somebody or something else. I am not technology averse. Even though Im an enthusiast, I still see opportunity for a certain level of autonomy as has been mentioned here. I enjoy my adaptive cruise and lane keep system and actually wish it could be enhanced a bit. I could even see usefulness for auto pilot on long trips as well. Its the vehicle without a steering wheel that I cant come to terms with. Even our airplanes have controls and pilots even though auto pilot controls the plane a large amount of the time. I guess you could say I dont like the concept of total loss of control. Basically, autopilots control things when they're at altitude, where it's really hard to hit anything else. I wouldn't mind having an autopilot that I could engage on the highway, particularly if I'm driving through someplace picturesque, so I'd be able to appreciate the scenery instead of worrying about what that overloaded Dodge truck is getting ready to do. BTW, I think what that Waymo stuff in Arizona really proves is that nobody wants to drive a minivan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 As for the bumper to bumper traffic thing...I seriously wonder how a system or systems would be able to handle gridlock type events like what is seen in DC or NYC during rush hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 It probably would help eliminate the little fender benders that occur in rush hour which jam up traffic even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 It probably would help eliminate the little fender benders that occur in rush hour which jam up traffic even more. Maybe they can at least pull off the road (out of the middle lanes) if there is a fender bender...... I hate that more than anything.....there's a scratch on the bumper, but lets park in the center lane of the highway and cause a massive traffic jam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 As for the bumper to bumper traffic thing...I seriously wonder how a system or systems would be able to handle gridlock type events like what is seen in DC or NYC during rush hour. This might be one of the easiest scenarios to manage. The complicated scenarios are the ones that seem 'simple' to us because of how fundamentally different human perception and AI are. Also bad weather. Bad weather is going to be hard for AI just like people (snow covered roads: Where is the center line? Where is the shoulder/curb? What is the maximum safe speed?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Also bad weather. Bad weather is going to be hard for AI just like people (snow covered roads: Where is the center line? Where is the shoulder/curb? What is the maximum safe speed?) There are some issues that remain with piloting autonomous cars in bad weather. I'm sure engineers will come up with solutions to them very soon. Last year, Ford demonstrated a solution to autonomous driving in snowy roads. They used 3D map data that have information not only about roads themselves, but also what's above the ground plane such as signs and topography. That way, even if the sensors can't identify the lane markings, it can use the other map data to figure out where the lanes are and stuff like maximum safe speed. https://www.wired.com/2016/01/the-clever-way-fords-self-driving-cars-navigate-in-snow/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 This might be one of the easiest scenarios to manage. The complicated scenarios are the ones that seem 'simple' to us because of how fundamentally different human perception and AI are. It would be "easy" if everything was automated, but thrown in a couple human driven cars in that traffic and all bets are off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 It would be "easy" if everything was automated, but thrown in a couple human driven cars in that traffic and all bets are off. Which is exactly what happened in Vegas Yesterday. https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/self-driving-bus-crash-vegas-account/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 I'm sure engineers will come up with solutions to them very soon. You're not very old, are you? 3D map data, accurate down to the inch, for all of the US, kept current, is not something that will be available any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 is it fallacious or even hubris to think that technology can overcome every conceivable hurdle with automated cars? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 is it fallacious or even hubris to think that technology can overcome every conceivable hurdle with automated cars? Fallacious, yes. It is conceivable that engineers can overcome engineering problems (I mean, that's what they do, after all), but they can't do anything about the big hurdles, the ones in the political and legal arenas. And the major problem with those hurdles is that there are some mighty big interests that are best served by not overcoming those hurdles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 If you ask me this whole ridiculous deal is being propagated by social media interests. They want us all in self-driving cars equipped with media access (and no controls) so they can continue to bombard us with their particular brand of nonsense while we are stuck in traffic. And stuck we will be, make no mistake about it. They don't want you driving, they want you texting, tweeting, facebooking, ect.. Talk about a captive audience! No steering wheel, no brake pedal, no accelerator, and the doors and windows will be locked until you arrive at your destination! You know, there's no real reason to even have windows in these things...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 My impression is that those who are predicting the death of personal vehicle ownership in favor of "transportation as a service" have a poor understanding of what drives vehicle ownership and use. They seem to think that the whole thing will be driven by cost when it should be obvious to them that convenience, comfort, and image is really what people are paying for, not just getting from point A to B. This paper predicts the death of personal vehicle ownership by 2030, basically because they want it to be so. https://www.rethinkx.com/transportation/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Correct, this is being driven by the disruptors with a vested interest in getting the message out there that vehicles are inanimate objects preventing us from being glued to our iPhones and iPads. I don't see a huge change in buyers suddenly wanting either BEVs or autonomous vehicles. I see big advantages with autonomous interstate truck haulage for managing / eliminating fatigue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 Correct, this is being driven by the disruptors with a vested interest in getting the message out there that vehicles are inanimate objects preventing us from being glued to our iPhones and iPads. Its not that...its the companies driving this (for example,Nvidia-they make video cards and want to branch out and want to get into AI) are in segments that are no longer offer large growth potential like they did 10-15 years ago. Google is still pushing it, but I'm assuming they are doing it for data collection and other things. Apple seems have tapped the brakes from the rumors going around about it. The whole thing has a bad smell to it...dealing with Tech for almost 20 years makes me really weary that a fully functional autonomous car is a long time off. Another Uber story-got a rental car yesterday for a business trip- I had to go 5-10 minutes from my house- ran me $10 bucks to get there...once again, how is this supposed to "save" people money? I pay about $850 for a car payment, insurance and gas for my car, so if I used uber-I figure about 30-40 a day to get to and from work- which would be rough $630 a month (work 9/80s). The car will be paid off this October, so I'll only be paying about $250 or so a month for gas/insurance. Not to mention the complete loss of flexibility to go where I want when I want without dumping out a huge amount of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Uber saves people money because they don't understand the value of a dollar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) fffffff Edited November 13, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) ffffff Edited November 13, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Uber saves people money because they don't understand the value of a dollar I don't use either, but from the reports I've heard, Uber saves people money because it's significantly less expensive than taxi services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Uber and Lyft are much easier to use than a taxi (outside NYC or other areas where you can just flag one down) - you just request a car from your phone and you pay for it automatically. You can also split the cost between friends. It's super convenient but not a full time alternative to owning a car. You really have to use mass transit most of the time to make it cost effective. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 You really have to use mass transit most of the time to make it cost effective. a novel idea if you live in an area that takes mass transit seriously Detroit's idea of mass transit is a 3.3 mile street car to nowhere and an elevated train that only goes in a circle downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 I don't use either, but from the reports I've heard, Uber saves people money because it's significantly less expensive than taxi services. I haven’t used a taxi since 1996 or so...and I was in Germany. Never used one locally. IIRC when I was in Oklahoma, every time I took a cab to the local airport, the price was never the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I haven’t used a taxi since 1996 or so...and I was in Germany. Never used one locally. IIRC when I was in Oklahoma, every time I took a cab to the local airport, the price was never the same. Wait--we have taxis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Wait--we have taxis? Well, he did say "a cab" so not necessarily plural... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Nice article refuting Lutzs claims http://www.thedrive.com/opinion/16001/is-the-entire-car-industry-really-doomed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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