White99GT Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Brainerd International Raceway has street legal car drag racing and autocross on the same night. When the GT350s show up, I always expect them to do the autocross but they do the drag strip, instead. Odd, I know, but so is drag racing a Lincoln Continental. At least, I have no plans to do the autocross with the Lincoln. It's not so much the lack of low end torque as it is the trans/rear gearing. 1st gear is extremely tall in GT350s, which makes them slower than they should be from a dig. The GT350 really needs a 4.88 for drag racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Even 4.11s would make a big difference. In a recent youtube, a GT350 got to 169 mph in 5th. (8,250 rpm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Here's a dyno run, bone stock 5.0/ 10 speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Maybe the 10-speed is just a whole lot more efficient than anyone thought. Assuming Ford is being honest about the 460 hp rating then 425 would equal approximately an 8% drivetrain loss. Assuming 470 at the crank then 425 would equal about a 10% loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Wow those are great numbers out of a basic GT. I can't wait to see what they do with the GT500 and the 5.2. I'm sure the guy in this video is definitely interested in getting the next autonomous pod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Here's a dyno run, bone stock 5.0/ 10 speed Actually, their math is backwards. You lose 15% (or the exact number the specific loss is) from crank numbers, not gain 15% from rear wheel numbers. 500 Crank X 85% is 425 RWHP. Doing it the way shown 425 RWHP X 1.15% is 488.75HP. Which is a bit light. If you are calculating from a 15% loss to the wheels, you need to Multiply by 1.175 to make the crank HP right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) Or could it be that the 15% power train loss figure often used is not accurate for all cars... Maybe the truth lies somewhere between more efficient power train and Ford understating power... Edited November 20, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Or could it be that the 15% power train loss figure often used is not accurate for all cars... Maybe the truth lies somewhere between more efficient power train and Ford understating power... Maybe ford spread their VOODOO all over the whole driveline so effectively that the driveline only loses 8% of the power going through the converter, 10 speed trans, driveshaft and differential. (5% if you use the other 437RWHP figure I've seen) Highly unlikely the Ford has taken the losses down to only 33-50% of what every other car loses. 5-8% drivetrain loss would be awesome though........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Doesn't Drag Strip mode alter the shift programming as well? Could it also be changing torque converter lockup which could also result in less slip and therefore less driveline loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) Doesn't Drag Strip mode alter the shift programming as well? Could it also be changing torque converter lockup which could also result in less slip and therefore less driveline loss? Think transmission shift kit and probably higher shift points. Edited November 21, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 More '18s are getting to the track and they are really fast. Here's an 11.85@119.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 That's actually 11.835 which is an important difference since the best Camaro SS time so far was supposedly 11.84. Not that it makes a big difference with the 10-speed but it doesn't hurt that the Stang was being driven by Evan Smith. http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/1712-running-11s-with-a-factory-stock-2018-mustang-gt/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Still waiting for a full road test, very interested in how well the refresh improves the whole car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-ford-mustang-gt-manual-test-review I was hoping for a bit better acceleration numbers. The automatic will be better but this test of a manual version recorded the same 0-60 as the older model. I expected the additional power would improve that as well as the revised suspension making helping with off-the-line traction. The quarter mile time is better by about 3 tenths which is nice but I really thought it would be in the low 12s. While the new Mustang is a nice upgrade over the last models, and certainly has some daily driver benefits over the Camaro, it still seems to fall a bit short of the Camaro in terms of outright acceleration. Cars do vary and so does driver technique so this may not be 100% representative. I look forward to more tests and seeing how the automatic version does. More importantly to me, I look forward to seeing how these run at my local tracks in the hands of their owners. I was sorta planning on being one of those owners but time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) While the sport Pack gets you the 3,73 rear axle and LSD, the gearbox is changed to a close Ratio M82-D4 for 2018, First gear is now 3.0:and fourth is now 1.0:1, This is probably why the 0-60 mph time is still the same, the combined gear ratio in the first four gears is now taller meaning the engine has to work harder to get the same times... With the 2017's wider Ratio Box's lower first and 1.0:1 fifth gear, the Mustang would probably be a lot quicker... Like the Camaro, the auto GT Mustang is a lot faster, the extra gears help the car get into the HP band and stay there, So if you want to ho 6/10 faster over the 1/4 mile, get the Auto with the Sports Pack. Just bear in mind that compared to SS Camaro, the 18 GT Sports Pack is now similar gearing, weight, Horsepower but the peak torque is still down 40 lb ft. and that shows up in the0-60 time. 2017 GT..............2018 GT1st...3.66..............3.012nd..2.43..............2.073rd...1.69..............1.434th...1.32..............1.005th...1.00..............0.846th...0.65..............0.57 Edited December 30, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 First modified '18 Mustang GT in the 9's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Those numbers would have crushed my 70 B302..heck my buds 69 428cj would have not stood a chance either....bout only thing i know that would have hung around with those numbers would have been todd's 67 383 belvedere that was highly midified for the track...they need to ban those mustangs...too fast..people need to buy camaros...much slower Edited January 9, 2018 by snooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) ...the gearbox is changed to a close Ratio M82-D4 for 2018, First gear is now 3.0:and fourth is now 1.0:1...With the 2017's wider Ratio Box's lower first and 1.0:1 fifth gear, the Mustang would probably be a lot quicker... ... So if you want to ho 6/10 faster over the 1/4 mile, get the Auto with the Sports Pack. No need to give up the third pedal, just put a set of 4:30s in the rear end to get the torque back. Also, when you're running a double overdrive of .57, I'm starting to see the need for a 7-speed manual simply to keep 1st gear low enough for a small block (6L+ engines are torquey enough they get by with a higher first gear) while maintaining spread between gears close enough to keep the engine in it's powerband. Makes you wonder how we got by all those years with the toploaders and muncies! Heck even the 5-spd OD trans with their ~0.7 overdrives are starting to seem like a handicap. Edited January 10, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I have been chatting with a dealer about the possibility of ordering a 2018 and having them install a supercharger and associated hardware/software. They have been doing that successfully on earlier models. Here is the latest response: As yet, there are no available power adders for the 2018 model Mustangs. With the redesign of the 5.0 Coyote motor, ROUSH, Hellion, Armagedon, Whipple and others had to re-engineer their power adders and have yet to deliver something to any speed shops suitable to upgrade the 2018 models. We expect they should have something in the coming months. With that being said, we are still offering our 727 HP upgrades for the 2017 models. But specific trim requests, in specific colors and with specific options will be harder and harder to find the closer we get to Spring since Ford has deeply incentivized the 2017 models. I still have several of the Premiums here on site, and of course I can trade to get others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I have been chatting with a dealer about the possibility of ordering a 2018 and having them install a supercharger and associated hardware/software. They have been doing that successfully on earlier models. Here is the latest response: As yet, there are no available power adders for the 2018 model Mustangs. With the redesign of the 5.0 Coyote motor, ROUSH, Hellion, Armagedon, Whipple and others had to re-engineer their power adders and have yet to deliver something to any speed shops suitable to upgrade the 2018 models. We expect they should have something in the coming months. With that being said, we are still offering our 727 HP upgrades for the 2017 models. But specific trim requests, in specific colors and with specific options will be harder and harder to find the closer we get to Spring since Ford has deeply incentivized the 2017 models. I still have several of the Premiums here on site, and of course I can trade to get others. Sounds like typical dealer nonsense designed to convince you to buy something they have on the lot. While the MAK GT in the 9.92 vid uses a belt driven centrifugal supercharger which is probably easier to adapt to the new FI system, I'm sure it won't be long before other designs are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Sounds like typical dealer nonsense designed to convince you to buy something they have on the lot. While the MAK GT in the 9.92 vid uses a belt driven centrifugal supercharger which is probably easier to adapt to the new FI system, I'm sure it won't be long before other designs are available. Its probably not a matter of development, but getting it approved by Ford/Ford Performance so it can be installed and not void the warranty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 The re-engineering part may be BS - most likely all they really have to do is retest and probably recalibrate the tune - but it's true that nothing is available for the 2018s yet. At least not from Roush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Its probably not a matter of development, but getting it approved by Ford/Ford Performance so it can be installed and not void the warranty. Pretty sure Roush provides the warranty, not Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Pretty sure Roush provides the warranty, not Ford. theres still the ford warranty too isnt there? I dont know Ive never owned a performance car before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) My guess is the plumbing of the direct injection is what's causing some of the issues. That is probably also one of the reasons why the leaked pics of the supposed 5.2L GT500 engine has the intercooler on top of the supercharger rather than in the valley under the blower. What about the Edelbrock E-Force? Isn't that a similar design? There could also be a difference in how the intake manifold attaches to the cylinder heads which might require new intake manifold designs regardless of the blower design with the obvious exception of the centrifugal supercharger which mounts off the front of the engine rather than bolting directly to whatever is between the blower and the heads be that a manifold or an intercooler when the blower is mounted on top. Edited January 10, 2018 by blksn8k2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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