Anthony Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Since Ford financial's were coming up in the Ranger thread, thought this would be a good place to move that conversation. http://www.autonews.com/article/20171019/OEM/171019646/fords-28-billion-cash-pile-doesnt-buy-love-on-wall-street?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. may be both flush with cash and struggling with its stock price, but new CEO Jim Hackett is in no rush to buy Wall Streets love. The carmakers $28 billion cash pile isnt burning a hole in our pocket, Hackett said during an hours-long investor day early this month. Since then, Fords shares have slipped and two analysts have cut their ratings, citing the time itll take the CEO to turn around the company with self-driving technology and electric vehicles. Full article at link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Fords shares have slipped and two analysts have cut their ratings, citing the time itll take the CEO to turn around the company with self-driving technology and electric vehicles. . What the hell are they even talking about?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 . What the hell are they even talking about?? I assume the fact that Ford's electric vehicles and autonomous tech is still a few years away from launching. I don't understand why they act so surprised when it'll be a few years before we see the fruits of Hackett's labor.....he can't flip a switch and suddenly the model comes out the next day. Furthermore, they complain Ford isn't as profitable as they want, yet they want them to spend more of the money they've made, eating into profitability. That said, I agree his plan (well, the announcement, anyway) didn't answer the questions most of us have had, with the biggest part of it being the cost cutting to become more profitable. Hopefully it'll be complimented by some sort of product announcement sometime soon, or some concepts or something at the auto shows, because at a glance, it doesn't seem like much has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 . What the hell are they even talking about?? They're saying that Ford's success depends on self-driving cars and electric vehicles that are still 2 years away. That's why I never listen to "analysts". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 There are a few things that keep the stock price low one being Ford family ownership structure. A take over is always priced into a company's stock price, when the company can't be taken over the stock price suffers. What Ford needs to do is take some of that cash and buy back a billion or so shares, it might not help the share price short term, but could cut dividend costs by a 1/3 (or cut them, while giving existing share holders a raise). It gives the company an option in the future to raise more capital if the market goes south again it could reissue shares. Ford issues about 2 billion shares of stock leading up to the last downturn raising capital.Analysts have to create market volatility, that is where they make their money on shorting and more importantly options. The stock market is one big Ponzi scheme, you have to be part of it but its all just tissue paper being held up by hot air.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 They need to take some of that cash and fix the production and quality issues starting with engineering. The cost cutting over the last 3 years is really starting to hurt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 They need to take some of that cash and fix the production and quality issues starting with engineering. The cost cutting over the last 3 years is really starting to hurt. And sadly it sounds like more cost cutting is coming.....doubling down on the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 And sadly it sounds like more cost cutting is coming.....doubling down on the problem. There is a difference between cutting costs by simplifying things and cutting platforms vs. delaying products and not investing in infrastructure, engineering, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 There is a difference between cutting costs by simplifying things and cutting platforms vs. delaying products and not investing in infrastructure, engineering, etc. I know, but still. I'm sure there's both going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 The infatuation with electric cars and self driving cars is really irritating. I'm not sayIng they shouldn't invest in them but seriously. This marriage between the auto industry and the tech industry is somewhat unsettling to me. Computer hardware is now a commodity and I hope that doesn't happen to the automobile because I really like to drive my vehicles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 The infatuation with electric cars and self driving cars is really irritating. I'm not sayIng they shouldn't invest in them but seriously. This marriage between the auto industry and the tech industry is somewhat unsettling to me. Computer hardware is now a commodity and I hope that doesn't happen to the automobile because I really like to drive my vehicles. That's the problem...its being driven by the tech industry, where a minor improvement to a product is the greatest thing in the world hype (i.e. iphone launches over the years-which is finally tapering off) and people eat it up. Like I said in the other thread...actual improvements in computer hardware has slowed down quite a bit over the past 7 years or so...its not the mid to late 1990s where there was a doubling in performance every 18-24 months. Computers that are 5-7 years old or so are still usable in most work environments. The tech industry is branching into other markets to keep profits coming in and over hyping self drive/electric cars is where they are trying to make in roads with I stll think we are are at least 10 years out from widespread electrical implementation, given current buying trends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 That's the problem...its being driven by the tech industry, where a minor improvement to a product is the greatest thing in the world hype (i.e. iphone launches over the years-which is finally tapering off) and people eat it up. That's because Apple keeps adding stuff that Samsung, LG (among others) has had in their phones for the last 3-5 years. Think about it like this. When the iPhone 6/6+ was announced, Samsung had been selling essentially the same phone since 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) That's because Apple keeps adding stuff that Samsung, LG (among others) has had in their phones for the last 3-5 years. Think about it like this. When the iPhone 6/6+ was announced, Samsung had been selling essentially the same phone since 2012. But the issue is that Samsung doesn't have the name recognition/marketing that Apple does (well in the US at least)...I don't think they'll ever be able to crack that nut. They can come out with neat features, but they can't use that to gain market share. The hype is dying off because the press has become more jaded over the years and the improvements in Cell Phones aren't as rapid as they where 10 years ago...they are running into the same situation as PC's are. I used to switch between Apple and Android devices and said screw it because Apple was less of a headache to deal with...and I'm tech guy. iPhones just "work" and its bore out by its success...at my Company, iPhones are used 3x amount of Android phones and employees have a choice. Edited October 19, 2017 by silvrsvt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 I used to switch between Apple and Android devices and said screw it because Apple was less of a headache to deal with...and I'm tech guy. iPhones just "work" and its bore out by its success...at my Company, iPhones are used 3x amount of Android phones and employees have a choice. oh my god thank you! I've been saying that for years after I had 2 android phones that shit the bed on me. Never a single problem with any of the 3 iPhones I've had. They just work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 oh my god thank you! I've been saying that for years after I had 2 android phones that shit the bed on me. Never a single problem with any of the 3 iPhones I've had. They just work. Until they flip the magic switch at headquarters when they're about to release a new one that makes battery life and other things plummet.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Until they flip the magic switch at headquarters when they're about to release a new one that makes battery life and other things plummet.... that's my one complaint actually. It wasn't a problem with my iPhone 4, but with both my old 6+ and now my current 7+ I've never gotten the advertised battery life out of either of them. Not a huge problem when I'm at work listening to podcasts and music since I can just leave it plugged in all night but it's annoying that I even have to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) Ford was hording cash because it was forecasting an industry slow down. It may still happen but seems less likely now than a year ago. Wall St is having an issue with how Ford horded the cash... by not investing in tech and and stretching out core product cycles. This shows up every month in the sales results... Ford has a lot of old products that needed to be replaced soon but most of them are at least 18 months away because Fields delayed them all. Edited October 19, 2017 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Suggesting/endorsing Fields as his successor will go down as Mulally's biggest failure at Ford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Suggesting/endorsing Fields as his successor will go down as Mulally's biggest failure at Ford. It's a shame, because there were things about Fields I liked better than Mulally, namely the performance division, and dedicating money to Lincoln (though more would help). But everything else just got kicked down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 The infatuation with electric cars and self driving cars is really irritating. I'm not sayIng they shouldn't invest in them but seriously. This marriage between the auto industry and the tech industry is somewhat unsettling to me. Computer hardware is now a commodity and I hope that doesn't happen to the automobile because I really like to drive my vehicles. I agree with the first half of your statement. Yes, Ford is "behind the curve" on both electric vehicle AND self driving. The both have their place in the near future but I suspect that the electric vehicle niche is pretty small (< 10% of the industry). Still not sure about self driving vehicles. I too enjoy some driving. I want a self driving car that would actually allow me to SLEEP on long highway trips ! As for the "commodity" statement you are wrong. The last 25 years of my career at Ford were spent design engine control system. Up until about 2000, the auto industry "wagged the tail" of the electronics industry. That is, auto volume demand set the direction of a lot of the electronics industry. (In the 80s/90s Motorola actually added a special instruction to their 8/16 bit microprocessor at the request of GM !) When the cell phone volume took off, automotive lost much of the influence they had over the electronics industry. Intel made a conscious decision to get out of that business (they had been a major sub-supplier to Ford). Ford spent a large amount of manpower/money selecting and shifting from 16 bit microprocessors to 32 bit microprocessor around that time. Several years after Electronics Division was converted to Visteon, microprocessor architecture became a PURCHASING decision. Actually, it was a NON-DECISION as the assumption was made that it was a "commodity" ! The point being, Ford and their suppliers/sub-suppliers "took their EYE OFF THE BALL" when it came to prognosticating future requirements. For the past 15+ years, electronics capability requirements have been driven by CARB/EPA. OBD-II has been far from stagnant. Many new tests/monitors have been added. The electronics industry has been so heavily focused on the cell phone and "Internet of Things" (IoT) market space they have ignored the auto industry. Short summary, cars need a lot of input and outputs AND a lot of (relatively) fast flash memory and RAM. Integrating flash, RAM, IO and processing on to one chip (in order to achieve the required performance) has become more and more challenging and no electronics company has really "stepped up to the plat". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I really don't understand Wall Street. Ford is near a 5 year low. They are paying about a 5% dividend (not bad for a Fortune 50 company). They are responding to the current customer demands for more SUVs and trucks (Expedition, Ranger, Bronco). Sounds like a decent investment to me ! Yes, quality has "slipped" again ! (Who cost thrifted that door latch which has been used on almost every Ford vehicle for the past 20 years !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 To understand Wall Street you just have to understand that you can make just as much money from a stock that falls from $50 to $10 as you can the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 To understand Wall Street you just have to understand that you a stockbroker can make just as much money from a stock that falls from $50 to $10 as you can the other way around. . fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 . fixed Nope. Anybody can short sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Until they flip the magic switch at headquarters when they're about to release a new one that makes battery life and other things plummet.... Actually someone provided that slow downs where BS...as for battery life, all my phones have show significant degradation at the 2 year mark in battery life. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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