akirby Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 That's my point - newer buyers want the look, but never use the capability. Yep. Just like AWD in Florida...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Bronco won't be priced like a Raptor - it'll have lower trim/cheaper models. I won't be surprised if they add a Raptor trim to it a year after launch, but that'll be just a trim just like on F-150. I'll bet a Raptor version will be a Rubicon competitor. Edited October 17, 2017 by tbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I see some Gucci Jeeps that just have cool looking wheels/brush guards on newer models...but its all about looks vs actual work I suspect this is the fate of 95% of Wranglers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 That's my point - newer buyers want the look, but never use the capability. Ft Lauderdale, FL, is a long way from Moab, UT. Real Jeeps that are really used as Jeeps are very popular in the Mountain West, along with 4Runners. They are late model, they are decked out with gear, and they are in the office parking lot on Monday covered in mud, dirt, and road salt. There are a lot of dirty Raptor's too! This ain't FL or SoCal. Flatlanders who haven't yet should plan to visit the Rockies and Moab (high desert) region sometime, it's really cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Remember it doesn't have to sell 200K copies because it's sharing a platform and factory with Ranger which is the volume seller. How many Raptors does Ford sell - 20K/yr? I'd put Bronco in that same category. Maybe a bit higher assuming it's significantly cheaper than a Raptor. Well, if Ford can't keep the Flex going at 24k/year, they sure aren't going to keep the Bronco going on 20k/year. The Raptor is not near as different from an F150 as a Bronco will be from a Ranger due to the complete body differences in a Bronco/Ranger. Think crash testing, more passengers, etc. Not even close. I'm thinking 50-60k/year minimum is going to be necessary to keep the Bronco going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Well, if Ford can't keep the Flex going at 24k/year, they sure aren't going to keep the Bronco going on 20k/year. The Raptor is not near as different from an F150 as a Bronco will be from a Ranger due to the complete body differences in a Bronco/Ranger. Think crash testing, more passengers, etc. Not even close. I'm thinking 50-60k/year minimum is going to be necessary to keep the Bronco going. But they have kept Flex going at 24K/yr for 10 years. The only reason to kill it is to make room for the new Explorer and Aviator and it's not worth moving to a new platform. Flex is somewhat redundant to Explorer. Bronco has no other similar model to compete with. Also - Bronco should be exported so that would drive up production volumes beyond North America sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 But they have kept Flex going at 24K/yr for 10 years. The only reason to kill it is to make room for the new Explorer and Aviator and it's not worth moving to a new platform. Flex is somewhat redundant to Explorer. Bronco has no other similar model to compete with. Also - Bronco should be exported so that would drive up production volumes beyond North America sales. The Flex is still using the same transmission and engine that it had when it debuted 10 years ago. The updates have been basically non-existent. You can't really say they have kept it going other than continuing to churn them out. The point I'm making is that the cost to build the Flex should be smaller than the cost to build the Bronco, so the Bronco is going to have to sell more to keep itself alive. I want it to stick around and not be a one-and-done model like the Flex. If the Bronco is exported, that will definitely help too. And honestly, I hope Ford comes out with a true off-roader as well as a wannabe, and they sell the $hit out of them both. I would like to have a wannabe for our next vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Does anybody in this thread, or even on this site, know for 100% certainty what the Bronco even is? How can anybody comment on capability or cost when the final product hasn't even been approved yet? Edited October 17, 2017 by Pioneer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Ft Lauderdale, FL, is a long way from Moab, UT. Real Jeeps that are really used as Jeeps are very popular in the Mountain West, along with 4Runners. They are late model, they are decked out with gear, and they are in the office parking lot on Monday covered in mud, dirt, and road salt. There are a lot of dirty Raptor's too! This ain't FL or SoCal. Flatlanders who haven't yet should plan to visit the Rockies and Moab (high desert) region sometime, it's really cool. I didn't say they aren't used that way, I was saying that the majority of them aren't. It depends what market Ford wants to target. I think a "flanking" move would work better, as you're not going directly after the faithful that won't switch no matter what you offer, and you can pick off the less brand-loyal buyers by offering something similar but different. Well, if Ford can't keep the Flex going at 24k/year, they sure aren't going to keep the Bronco going on 20k/year. The Raptor is not near as different from an F150 as a Bronco will be from a Ranger due to the complete body differences in a Bronco/Ranger. Think crash testing, more passengers, etc. Not even close. I'm thinking 50-60k/year minimum is going to be necessary to keep the Bronco going. Bronco will sell far more than 20k/year. I think it could at least get to 10K/month. The Flex is still using the same transmission and engine that it had when it debuted 10 years ago. The updates have been basically non-existent. You can't really say they have kept it going other than continuing to churn them out. The point I'm making is that the cost to build the Flex should be smaller than the cost to build the Bronco, so the Bronco is going to have to sell more to keep itself alive. I want it to stick around and not be a one-and-done model like the Flex. If the Bronco is exported, that will definitely help too. And honestly, I hope Ford comes out with a true off-roader as well as a wannabe, and they sell the $hit out of them both. I would like to have a wannabe for our next vehicle. I think Ford has already said Bronco will be a global model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Does anybody in this thread, or even on this site, know for 100% certainty what the Bronco even is? How can anybody comment on capability or cost when the final product hasn't even been approved yet? Nope, none of us have a clue. We're all arm-chair engineering and business proposalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I didn't say they aren't used that way, I was saying that the majority of them aren't. It depends what market Ford wants to target. I think a "flanking" move would work better, as you're not going directly after the faithful that won't switch no matter what you offer, and you can pick off the less brand-loyal buyers by offering something similar but different. Bronco will sell far more than 20k/year. I think it could at least get to 10K/month. I think Ford has already said Bronco will be a global model. I think it will hit 10k/month for a year or so, but then I fear it will drop off pretty quickly once the pent up demand is met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I think it will hit 10k/month for a year or so, but then I fear it will drop off pretty quickly once the pent up demand is met. This entire page is why I'm seriously considering a transfer to DTP should it open up soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Ft Lauderdale, FL, is a long way from Moab, UT. Real Jeeps that are really used as Jeeps are very popular in the Mountain West, along with 4Runners. They are late model, they are decked out with gear, and they are in the office parking lot on Monday covered in mud, dirt, and road salt. There are a lot of dirty Raptor's too! This ain't FL or SoCal. Flatlanders who haven't yet should plan to visit the Rockies and Moab (high desert) region sometime, it's really cool. Fortunately for you you have legitimate terrain to maximize the capabilities of the vehicles. It sucks living in the flatlands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) This entire page is why I'm seriously considering a transfer to DTP should it open up soon.Do it. Once at DTP, you will have access to the whole Rouge site. The Union sucks, but the job security is worth it. DTP would be Ford's last stand. Hell, take any Rouge plant. Stamping and Frame have had a lot of work done to them. They are old but viable. Engine might not need anybody until a new product is sourced, but if that happens they will be people too. Edited October 17, 2017 by Pioneer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Do it. Once at DTP, you will have access to the whole Rouge site. The Union sucks, but the job security is worth it. DTP would be Ford's last stand. Hell, take any Rouge plant. Stamping and Frame have had a lot of work done to them. They are old but viable. Engine might not need anybody until a new product is sourced, but if that happens they will be people too. the only thing stopping me is the trades list. I'm much better off being at the bottom of a list of 41 here rather than a list of about 7000 there at the rouge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 You should do it. It would be cool to know someone that helped build the next F150 I buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 This entire page is why I'm seriously considering a transfer to DTP should it open up soon. I wouldn't base your job decision on what us internet know-it-alls say, but with that said, DTP builds the company's crown jewel, and I would think that would be THE factory to work at for Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 You should do it. It would be cool to know someone that helped build the next F150 I buy. Well, Pioneer keeps the machines running (with ty-wrap) at DTP, so he took part in making sure your Raptor came down the line on time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Well, Pioneer keeps the machines running (with ty-wrap) at DTP, so he took part in making sure your Raptor came down the line on time. I appreciate that Pioneer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I think it will hit 10k/month for a year or so, but then I fear it will drop off pretty quickly once the pent up demand is met. Depends on where the sales are going to come from...I don't see a reason why it can't sell in 80-100K range throughout its lifespan. The 4 Runner sells anywhere from 50K to 125K units a year. Just makes you wonder where other sales are going to be coming from in the Ford lineup..the Edge does 100-130K units itself and the Explorer does 150-200K+ Interceptor sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I've been thinking I think there's a real opportunity with the Bronco for rural police usage or Border Patrol out on the Mexican border for uses that a Tahoe/Expedition are too big for. That could help bolster sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 I've been thinking I think there's a real opportunity with the Bronco for rural police usage or Border Patrol out on the Mexican border for uses that a Tahoe/Expedition are too big for. That could help bolster sales. Wait....!!!?!?? Fleet sales are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Wait....!!!?!?? Fleet sales are bad. you're right. How dare I come up with a way of selling more cars! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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