Kev-Mo Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 The profits go to shareholders, and are used to invest in new or upgraded facilities. Right now, the North American market is more important to Toyota (and Honda) than the Japanese market. They are investing plenty of money right here, in the U.S. and Canada. They are also investing money in China and other emerging markets, but so are Ford and GM. jpd80 is correct and it matters greatly! How many times does this need to be repeated - FCA, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Samsung, LG, the list of product names is massive; all have a huge ADVANTAGE in our market because of current Free-trade agreements that allow them to immediately repatriate their USA operations profits back to the homeland, thereby exempting them from USA Corporate tax. This is disastrous for the USA and consumers that buy these product while rationalizing "my Camry was made in the USA..." are slowly destroying American industries. Most consumers don't know or simply don't care -they buy what they want. Over time our entire economy, aside from banking and financial will be foreign owned, regardless of where things are made. At least one guy in Washington is leading a charge against this- but the establishment is out to crush him before he can get this turned around. Again - don't believe me? Go try to buy an American brand appliance at Lowe's or Home Depot! These companies will NEVER be American. They are not here to be good guys, but to dominate our industries and by exploiting the currently unfair rules, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) And none of that disproves that Honda and Toyota are expanding facilities and production in North America. They may "repatriate" their profits to corporate headquarters, but a fair amount of that money will eventually invested somewhere, or distributed to shareholders. Given that the North American market is now more important to Honda and Toyota than the Japanese market (and, most likely, the European market), a fair amount of that money will be invested here, in new or expanded facilities. Edited September 18, 2017 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 And none of that disproves that Honda and Toyota are expanding facilities and production in North America. They may "repatriate" their profits to corporate headquarters, but a fair amount of that money will eventually invested somewhere, or distributed to shareholders. Given that the North American market is now more important to Honda and Toyota than the Japanese market (and, most likely, the European market), a fair amount of that money will be invested here, in new or expanded facilities. I am amazed that people think it is Ok for our economy to be foreign owned! And the more they exploit their advantage to expand, the more the US Based companies will shrink - so how is that good? Your argument simply replaces US based companies with Foreign based companies. As one of my favorite economic podcast hosts likes to say: "...start a trade war? Hell, we have been in a trade war for 30 years and we are losing badly!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) Should Europeans have been upset when Ford of Europe was keeping the Ford Motor Company afloat in the early 1980s? Ford and GM have been global companies for decades. Honda and Toyota don't just sell vehicles here. They design, engineer and build them here, too (the Accord isn't even sold in Japan today). These are multi-national companies that design and build vehicles tailored to individual markets all over the world. In other words, they are operating just like GM and Ford have done since the 1930s. If Ford and GM are getting beaten on their home turf, perhaps the blame rests in Detroit. Why, for example, is Ford still selling a 2107 Focus that is basically unchanged from the 2012 model (and with the same problematic transmission), when Honda has managed to completely redesign Civic in that same time frame? Edited September 18, 2017 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Should Europeans have been upset when Ford of Europe was keeping the Ford Motor Company afloat in the early 1980s? Ford and GM have been global companies for decades. Honda and Toyota don't just sell vehicles here. They design, engineer and build them here, too (the Accord isn't even sold in Japan today). These are multi-national companies that design and build vehicles tailored to individual markets all over the world. In other words, they are operating just like GM and Ford have done since the 1930s. If Ford and GM are getting beaten on their home turf, perhaps the blame rests in Detroit. Why, for example, is Ford still selling a 2107 Focus that is basically unchanged from the 2012 model (and with the same problematic transmission), when Honda has managed to completely redesign Civic in that same time frame? You downplay the advantage repatriation of profits, and not having US Corporate tax burden. That is my gripe. As long as US consumers don't care, then the problem will continue, and US based industries will simply go away. The solution of course is Corporate Tax reform, but the resistance is strong. I am sure powerful Toyota and Honda lobby efforts are working to keep things just as they are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 If Ford and GM are getting beaten on their home turf, perhaps the blame rests in Detroit. Why, for example, is Ford still selling a 2107 Focus that is basically unchanged from the 2012 model (and with the same problematic transmission), when Honda has managed to completely redesign Civic in that same time frame? Really? I hate to say this, but small cars are an afterthought for Ford and GM to a point. When you sell 800k+ pickup trucks at $30K+ selling a compact car that tops out at 25K isn't as important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 You're both right. It's not like Honda and Toyota are here to sabotage the US. And they're not just importing vehicles. They do employ a large number of Americans both in design, manufacturing and sales and a lot of what they invest here stays here. It's also true the profits go back to Japan and we don't enjoy the same freedom of trade in the Japanese market as they do here. However, as grbeck points out, Ford does the same thing in Europe and other countries. I do agree that the US needs to make it more cost effective for countries to headquarter here by reducing corporate taxes - this helps level the playing field and keeps/creates more jobs here which in turn generates more personal income taxes to make up the difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I'm all for true tax reform. But I don't believe that the federal tax code is why Ford has dropped the ball on some key products lately. The F-150, Mustang, Fusion/MKZ, Edge/MKX and upcoming Expedition/Navigator all show what Ford can do when it really tries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I hate to say this, but small cars are an afterthought for Ford and GM to a point. When you sell 800k+ pickup trucks at $30K+ selling a compact car that tops out at 25K isn't as important. Well, until that nasty ol' CAFE rears its ugly head. No matter how hard you try, trucks basically still have the aerodynamics of a brick (of necessity), so they need those poopboxes as offsets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Well, until that nasty ol' CAFE rears its ugly head. No matter how hard you try, trucks basically still have the aerodynamics of a brick (of necessity), so they need those poopboxes as offsets... Interesting point, each vehicle type now has a requirement base on the respective track x wheelbase "footprint" I think this is why FCA was able to drop selling smaller cars, they don't need to offset the big ones anymore. I think the full sized trucks have until 2025 before they have to go above a window sticker value of 22 mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Interesting point, each vehicle type now has a requirement base on the respective track x wheelbase "footprint" I think this is why FCA was able to drop selling smaller cars, they don't need to offset the big ones anymore. I think the full sized trucks have until 2025 before they have to go above a window sticker value of 22 mpg. IIRC CAFE isn't the same as sticker MPG. CAFE is still rated at 1979 standard (which isn't very accurate anyways), from when it was first implemented. Plus you have consumer demand switching to CUV's and Trucks...the 54 MPG standard was based on CUV/Trucks making up only 33% of the market...more like its going to be 60/40 in favor of CUV/Trucks going forward. http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/buyer-appetite-takes-545-mpg-target-table-us-regulators-say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Go try to buy an American brand appliance at Lowe's or Home Depot! That's not difficult to do at all sir. I have a Whirlpool WTW5000DW washing machine that I bought at Lowe's. Whirlpool is an American company based in Western Michigan. Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears, and Best Buy carry lots of Whirlpool products. The WTW5000DW works great and is budget friendly too! Only cost $450 when I bought it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 That's not difficult to do at all sir. I have a Whirlpool WTW5000DW washing machine that I bought at Lowe's. Whirlpool is an American company based in Western Michigan. Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears, and Best Buy carry lots of Whirlpool products. The WTW5000DW works great and is budget friendly too! Only cost $450 when I bought it. Glad you made the effort to find Whirlpool in the sea of LG and Samsung - I bought Whirlpool too - didn't even look at the Korean stuff-as much as the salespeople directed me there. I do put my money where my mouth is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Is the Whirlpool made in the USA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Is the Whirlpool made in the USA? Whirlpool/Maytag - same company - claim that 80% of appliances sold in the USA, are made in the USA. GE Appliance makes many products in the USA, but they are owned by Chinese Haier (your trade deficit $$ at work!) - I won't touch 'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Whirlpool/Maytag - same company - claim that 80% of appliances sold in the USA, are made in the USA. GE Appliance makes many products in the USA, but they are owned by Chinese Haier (your trade deficit $$ at work!) - I won't touch 'em! My BIL used to work for Maytag until they shuttered the plant and moved production to MX (I think it was MX anyway...doesn't really matter). I guess his plant was one that made the other 20%... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 My BIL used to work for Maytag until they shuttered the plant and moved production to MX (I think it was MX anyway...doesn't really matter). I guess his plant was one that made the other 20%... Was he working at the Galesburg, IL plant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Was he working at the Galesburg, IL plant? Nope, Columbia, MO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 We spec'd out KitchenAid appliances for the new house (also owned by Whirlpool). But we bought a LG refrigerator because we like the ice/water door dispensor and the icemaker design. All in Black Stainless which is gorgeous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 GE Appliance makes many products in the USA, but they are owned by Chinese Haier (your trade deficit $$ at work!) - I won't touch 'em! I don't think many people are aware of this, myself included. I have a family member that works for Whirlpool, so I wouldn't have considered them anyway. But if I didn't consider Whirlpool and was searching for a new appliance, I would have done the homework to find this out. Unfortunately GE, such a story brand, seems to have been selling out for a long time. There are many stories about GE laying off American workers and moving production outside the US. It's pretty sad, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Nope, Columbia, MO. Well there was a huge Maytag plant in Galesburg, which was shuttered as well. That had a pretty dramatic impact on that town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 We spec'd out KitchenAid appliances for the new house (also owned by Whirlpool). But we bought a LG refrigerator because we like the ice/water door dispensor and the icemaker design. All in Black Stainless which is gorgeous. Though I appreciate some of the features on the LG/Samsung, I still wouldn't do it. I make a conscientious effort to keep Americans employed when I can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Though I appreciate some of the features on the LG/Samsung, I still wouldn't do it. I make a conscientious effort to keep Americans employed when I can. I tend to buy on features first, then where it is made. If they are really close on features, I'll buy American, but if not, I'll go with the one that has the features I prefer. How else are you going to get the American companies to produce what you want? See the automobile sector of the late 70's for reference. We bought LG fridges when we built our house. Unfortunately, the compressor died at 2.5 years old. I guess that helps the community by having to pay $300 to replace the compressor (parts were still under warranty). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Though I appreciate some of the features on the LG/Samsung, I still wouldn't do it. I make a conscientious effort to keep Americans employed when I can. I understand and appreciate that position. I try to do it as much as possible, but I'm also not willing to compromise too much on features or functionality or design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 If they are really close on features, I'll buy American, but if not, I'll go with the one that has the features I prefer. I try to do it as much as possible, but I'm also not willing to compromise too much on features or functionality or design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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