Ford Performance Parts

[akirby]

Each engineer costs around $10K/month plus test equipment, marketing, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the total cost was in the $100K range. Remember they have to be sure it's safe right out of the gate due to the warranty coverage and they can't afford to use a customer as a test bed like the independent tuners do.

[CurtisH]

Each engineer costs around $10K/month plus test equipment, marketing, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the total cost was in the $100K range. Remember they have to be sure it's safe right out of the gate due to the warranty coverage and they can't afford to use a customer as a test bed like the independent tuners do.

For the Mustang Ecoboost tune, Ford Performance offers a 3 yr/36,ooo mile warranty. Basically, if you have an engine problem/failure and Ford determines that it was related to the tune, Ford Performance covers the repair cost. Because of this, they spent a lot of time working on the tune. They have issued at least one revision to the tune. Guys that have compared the tune to aftermarket tunes say it feels just like the factory tune, only stronger. The aftermarket tunes, in comparison, are less polished. The aftermarket tunes generally give you a little more power, though.

[akirby]

For the Mustang Ecoboost tune, Ford Performance offers a 3 yr/36,ooo mile warranty. Basically, if you have an engine problem/failure and Ford determines that it was related to the tune, Ford Performance covers the repair cost. Because of this, they spent a lot of time working on the tune. They have issued at least one revision to the tune. Guys that have compared the tune to aftermarket tunes say it feels just like the factory tune, only stronger. The aftermarket tunes, in comparison, are less polished. The aftermarket tunes generally give you a little more power, though.

Exactly. That's not a guy spending a couple weeks tweaking parameters. And you know they have to do extended durability testing.

[Stray Kat]

So if the issue isn't crate engines then what the heck do you expect Ford to do about it? Are you just talking about parts availability? Or are you seriously saying that Ford should design new engines that someone can easily buy in a junkyard and transplant to another vehicle? Why on earth would Ford care about something that provides them absolutely $0 revenue?

Or do you think Ford should compromise their current designs which they use in a few million vehicles per year at an average cost of $35K just so a few hundred folks can fit them into their restoration projects?

As for folks putting a Ford crate engine in an older hot rod - how many do you think there are in a year? 50? 100? 200? That's a tiny tiny market segment and simply isn't worth the investment.

You also have to consider that some of Ford's production engines may be capacity constrained and the cost to add capacity just to sell a handful of crate engines is prohibitive.

I get why you and some others want this and would benefit from it. But I don't see the benefit for Ford to do some of the things you want.

I agree they could have more parts available but I suspect that was due to Fields cost cutting.

 

 

You sound like that neighbor who won't paint his house. His reasoning is "screw it why go to the trouble it'll just need to be done in another 7 years anyway ".

 

You have crafted a beautiful argument for not stepping up. There are holes in FPP's offerings. This just a couple years after Ford announced they were a performance car company and they would be introducing 12 new performance cars soon.

 

They consolidated their performance divisions and then as far as FPP goes things went quiet.

 

You want to talk about creating self fulfilling prophecy, well this is how you do it. You have a lackluster and incomplete lineup and say to yourself, "see the performance market isn't that big".

 

If you think Ford has a competitive program with FPP you're deluding yourself.

 

Don't matter though does it? For every category in life there are leaders and there are followers. I'm glad Ford is prudent but sometimes there are really really over conservative.

[akirby]

Our disagreement is simple - you only look at it from the customer/enthusiast's point of view without much regard to the business case.

 

When someone says Ford needs to do something or should do something or they're missing out on a business opportunity then I tend to analyze it from that aspect.

 

There is a difference between saying Ford should not be in that market versus explaining why they may have chosen not to be in that market at this particular time. If Ford chose to do the things you're asking I wouldn't have an issue with it either.

 

As with most business decisions it's not a matter of do it or not do it - it's a matter of "we have 3 projects on the table and only enough resources to do 1 right now". That's just a fact of life in any large corporation. Even if you have funding at the beginning of the year it may be taken away which is what I suspect happened a lot with Fields the last 2 years.

 

I completely agree that Ford is being ultra conservative (blame Fields again) in many areas and should have done better. I would like to see more performance options.

 

HOWEVER - there will always be opportunities that are simply too small to justify going after or where the aftermarket can do it better.

 

Take your 1.0EB in a sand rail idea. It's a neat idea but wouldn't most people prefer a 2.0EB with more power or a motorcycle engine? I just don't see the market there.

[Stray Kat]

The 1.0 sand rail was Ford's idea. I just happen to agree with it. Sand sports is a cottage industry. General Motors products fill the upper ranks of power plant needs just like they do with nearly 100% of the airboats here in Florida. They have no competition.

 

With the 1.0 EB Ford could fill a niche and I mistakenly thought they were thinking about doing just that. I'm pretty sure Formula Ford has gone to 3 cylinder EB power. If that's so many or most of the parts to create a longitudinal engine configuration already exist.

 

In addition Ford has now control package for that engine that I'm aware of.

 

I'm not that simple that I look at this from a consumer's standpoint. In fact I have applauded Ford and admonished Gm and Mopar for spending so much play money on motorsports straight out of near bankruptcy.

[Stray Kat]

The 1.0 sand rail was Ford's idea. I just happen to agree with it. Sand sports is a cottage industry. General Motors products fill the upper ranks of power plant needs just like they do with nearly 100% of the airboats here in Florida. They have no competition.

With the 1.0 EB Ford could fill a niche and I mistakenly thought they were thinking about doing just that. I'm pretty sure Formula Ford has gone to 3 cylinder EB power. If that's so many or most of the parts to create a longitudinal engine configuration already exist.

In addition Ford has no control package for that engine that I'm aware of.

I'm not that simple that I look at this from a consumer's standpoint. In fact I have applauded Ford and admonished Gm and Mopar for spending so much play money on motorsports straight out of near bankruptcy.

[tbone]

Our disagreement is simple - you only look at it from the customer/enthusiast's point of view without much regard to the business case.

 

When someone says Ford needs to do something or should do something or they're missing out on a business opportunity then I tend to analyze it from that aspect.

 

There is a difference between saying Ford should not be in that market versus explaining why they may have chosen not to be in that market at this particular time. If Ford chose to do the things you're asking I wouldn't have an issue with it either.

 

As with most business decisions it's not a matter of do it or not do it - it's a matter of "we have 3 projects on the table and only enough resources to do 1 right now". That's just a fact of life in any large corporation. Even if you have funding at the beginning of the year it may be taken away which is what I suspect happened a lot with Fields the last 2 years.

 

I completely agree that Ford is being ultra conservative (blame Fields again) in many areas and should have done better. I would like to see more performance options.

 

HOWEVER - there will always be opportunities that are simply too small to justify going after or where the aftermarket can do it better.

 

Take your 1.0EB in a sand rail idea. It's a neat idea but wouldn't most people prefer a 2.0EB with more power or a motorcycle engine? I just don't see the market there.

You and I generally agree on most topics however I don't concur with your position on this. Ford made a conscious decision to identity themselves as a performance company and consolidated everything into Ford Performance, and it's seems like it's been crickets since then on anything but their standard performance engines.

 

So when you say, "someone says Ford needs to do something or should do something or they're missing out on a business opportunity," well it was actually Ford that was promoting this, which I'm sure is where the frustration lies.

 

Regarding tunes, I understand they are being conservative on their tunes, from a warranty perspective, but who better to know the limitations of the the components of the vehicle than Ford. I would rather have a tune from Ford that makes 525hp, and offers the assurance that it won't blow up than a tune from an aftermarket company at 575hp that doesn't have those assurances (No offense to the aftermarket as I would still consider them for lack of OEM option.).

 

Young people and some of us old people like tech stuff and it seems like easy money to me, especially when things are only going to get more tunable from electronic standpoint.

 

I think people would just like to see more follow through from Ford Performance on all of the different opportunities there are now aside from the standard offerings.

[akirby]

You and I generally agree on most topics however I don't concur with your position on this. Ford made a conscious decision to identity themselves as a performance company and consolidated everything into Ford Performance, and it's seems like it's been crickets since then on anything but their standard performance engines.

 

So when you say, "someone says Ford needs to do something or should do something or they're missing out on a business opportunity," well it was actually Ford that was promoting this, which I'm sure is where the frustration lies.

 

Regarding tunes, I understand they are being conservative on their tunes, from a warranty perspective, but who better to know the limitations of the the components of the vehicle than Ford. I would rather have a tune from Ford that makes 525hp, and offers the assurance that it won't blow up than a tune from an aftermarket company at 575hp that doesn't have those assurances (No offense to the aftermarket as I would still consider them for lack of OEM option.).

 

Young people and some of us old people like tech stuff and it seems like easy money to me, especially when things are only going to get more tunable from electronic standpoint.

 

I think people would just like to see more follow through from Ford Performance on all of the different opportunities there are now aside from the standard offerings.

 

I guess I'm not doing a good job explaining my position.

 

I agree completely that Ford cut back on performance parts after they announced they were expanding it and I attribute that directly to Fields conservatism and cost cutting in anticipation of a big downturn that didn't happen.

 

I would like to see them do a lot more - e.g. a factory tune for Fusion and Edge sports and MKZ and Continental 3.0EBs.

 

The ONLY thing I'm disagreeing on is whether they need to do some specific applications such as a 1.0LEB crate engine or a crate engine designed specifically for vintage Ford vehicles where the volume may not be there to support that type of product. And again, I wouldn't complain if they did it but I'm not going to complain if they don't do it either.

[tbone]

I'm following you now. It would be nice to see some of those types of crate motors in addition to the traditional motors though.

[akirby]

I agree all that stuff would be cool and would be welcomed by Ford fans including me.

 

I just don't think that Ford is losing new car sales to Chevy because Chevy has a superior crate engine offering.

[Stray Kat]

Once again it's not a "crate" engine per say. It's specific hard parts that make Ford powertrain easily useable.

 

Their lunch is being eaten because other manufacturers have a coherent program not a Willy nilly dribs and drabs system.

 

As I said in my opinion Ford has some serious deficiencies that in my estimation could be overcome within a reasonable amount of resources used.

[akirby]

Their lunch is being eaten

 

And Ford is eating the others' lunch in other areas that probably generate far more revenue.

 

Does GM have a factory tune for Camaro?

 

Where is GMs Raptor?

 

Where is GMs Focus RS?

 

I understand your personal frustration but this doesn't seem to be a business problem.

[Stray Kat]

No it's not a business problem per say. How can there be a problem when you don't care about something?

 

In the same way why doesn't Price-Phister cry over the number of airplanes they don't sell in a year. They don't care cuz they don't make airplanes!

 

Ford isn't concerned (apparently) about much beyond their narrow new vehicle product line. This may be a great business strategy and sober minds probably prevailed here but by the same token Ford is very happy to collect licensing fees for this and they had nothing to do with its creation (meaning no money or resources put out):

 

http://dennis-carpenter.com/m/1940FordCoupeBody.aspx

[sullynd]

Just as someone determined there was a market for new steel bodies for old Fords, doesn't it stand to reason that if there were a market for kits to install 1.0 Ecoboosts in Sand Rails that someone would step up and make them?

 

Maybe that's a new business venture for you.

[akirby]

Just as someone determined there was a market for new steel bodies for old Fords, doesn't it stand to reason that if there were a market for kits to install 1.0 Ecoboosts in Sand Rails that someone would step up and make them?

 

That was the other point I forgot to bring up.

 

If there was enough demand for something then there would be an aftermarket supplier somewhere jumping all over it. If the OEMs aren't doing something and nobody in the aftermarket is doing it then there probably isn't enough demand.

[Stray Kat]

.....and we're off. Thanks guys. There is no need for Ford to participate in these follies right?

 

With that said why not bitch about spending metric tons of money in specific and high profile racing cars in which the sanctioning bodies can make you uncompetitive at the stroke of a pen? (NASCAR, NHRA,IMSA,WEC etc.)

 

Those are foolish endeavors in many ways subtracting not adding to the bottom line.

 

Instead of having a robust in house aftermarket program which actually touches real customers let's play with expensive rich man toys that are totally out of the realm of the actual customer.

 

See how that works?

[akirby]

No it's not a business problem per say. How can there be a problem when you don't care about something?

 

In the same way why doesn't Price-Phister cry over the number of airplanes they don't sell in a year. They don't care cuz they don't make airplanes!

 

GM spent their resources on aftermarket LS parts and crate engines.

 

Ford spent their resources on a Raptor, a Focus RS and factory authorized and warrantied tunes.

 

Just because Ford didn't devote more resources to the market that you're personally interested in doesn't mean they're ignoring performance.

 

For someone who wants to buy a Raptor or a Focus RS or put a factory tune on their Mustang they could say the same thing about GM. Why is GM ignoring such a huge business opportunity?

 

Step back and look at the bigger picture.

[akirby]

Instead of having a robust in house aftermarket program which actually touches real customers let's play with expensive rich man toys that are totally out of the realm of the actual customer.

 

See how that works?

 

I'm not trying to justify Ford's IMSA programs. If they cancelled them all tomorrow I would be disappointed but I wouldn't say it's a bad business decision. The Ford GT program is about company heritage and general advertising on a global scale. It's not about bottom line profit. It's like buying superbowl ads. The mustang racing program has more bottom line impact to mustang buyers but it's certainly not a necessity from a business standpoint.

 

Likewise if Ford chose to enhance their aftermarket programs I wouldn't complain about that either. But you can't seriously compare aftermarket engine parts for vintage Fords or specialty vehicles to the Ford GT LeMans effort. One appeals to maybe a few thousand folks while the other appeals to tens of millions of potential Ford buyers.

 

Should Ford cancel the Raptor and Focus RS programs and put those resources into Aftermarket engine parts? At a corporate level that's exactly the decisions they have to make. It's never as simple as "do x or don't do x". For every X you do there are multiple Ys and Zs that you have to forego.

[akirby]

Please answer these questions:

 

Why doesn't GM have a Raptor or a Focus RS or factory authorized tunes for Camaro? Where is their Edge Sport or Fusion Sport?

[fuzzymoomoo]

Please answer these questions:

 

Why doesn't GM have a Raptor or a Focus RS or factory authorized tunes for Camaro? Where is their Edge Sport or Fusion Sport?

FWIW Caddilac does have the V cars

[akirby]

FWIW Caddilac does have the V cars

 

And Ford has the GT. I'm not bashing GM at all - I'm simply pointing out that GM and Ford chose to spend their money and resources in different areas of performance.

[Stray Kat]

The majority of so called "new" stuff available from FPP are really just assembly line take offs like the Focus RS shifter for example.

 

Nothing wrong with that but it's not aggressive.

 

Aside from the new car take offs I doubt seriously that Ford manufactures very many parts at all that appear to be available in the catalog.

 

FPP is more of a coordinator for certain aftermarket items.

 

I included the '40 Ford body in this discussion for a couple reasons.

 

First I happen to know that that is a fully independent program that Ford lends its name to for a fee.

 

Second Ford could do so much more with that '40 Ford body by simply organizing catalog parts into a group under it.

 

These same parts groups would spill over to other vehicles of that era.

 

I am not saying Ford should blow a huge wad on a niche project but how about at least a professional effort to make even that an new income stream.

 

You keep trying to pigeonhole this discussion into a crate motor discussion. I'm not.

 

I'm saying that several key ingredients, that should come from Ford are missing and it's a stupid frustrating mistake.

 

Scenario: you have a 302 Ford out of a Mustang. I want to put it in my dream car '40 Ford.

 

Lemme see, my engine won't fit because the front dress is wrong. Well I'll just look it up in my 2 year old FPP catalog.

 

Oh here it is! Short water pump, but wait no pullies? No brackets? No adjusters?

 

Damn I guess I'll put a small block Chevy in it. That's what all my friends told me to do anyways.

 

So listen guys you can pat yourselves on the back all you want but Ford needs help if they want to appeal to a whole sector of enthusiasts.

 

Or as you guys seem to advocate for. Wait another generation, let the competition fill the void, and all the "hot rodders" will too old or dead and viola' problem solved.

[akirby]

Good grief. I give up.

[Stray Kat]

You know sumpthin'? I said the same thing to myself. Who gives a crap.