Ford Performance Parts

[Stray Kat]

Can anyone give me insight as to why the FPP Division is so quiet lately?

 

To my eye they seem to be gutted and mostly are a cleaning house for parts taken off the assembly lines from performance Fords to enhance base models.

 

This is not meant to be a knock just wondering what the underlying philosophy is there.

 

Very little is available for anything but Mustang, Focus or F150.

 

I get it that those are Ford's bread and butter but why absolutely no support for the street/hot rod guys?

 

I cannot find an online 2017 catalog. You can only download a 2016. That's about two years behind since the 2018 should be coming soon.

 

For all intents and purposes Ford seems to have pulled back a bit in this market.

 

Please enlighten me or tell me where I'm wrong. I hope I am wrong. Thanks.

[tbone]

They're supposed to be a performance tune for the Raptor but that has yet to materialize. I contacted them and they said to keep checking back with no timeframe as to when it might show up. It seems like they're missing out on easy money on some of this stuff. I was hoping to buy a Ford branded performance tune to eliminate any warranty issues.

[CurtisH]

They're supposed to be a performance tune for the Raptor but that has yet to materialize. I contacted them and they said to keep checking back with no timeframe as to when it might show up. It seems like they're missing out on easy money on some of this stuff. I was hoping to buy a Ford branded performance tune to eliminate any warranty issues.

I think it took close to 2 years for them to release the tune for the Mustang Ecoboost. I hear that it's a really good tune, but they were really slow about releasing it.

[Stray Kat]

Yes guys it's very frustrating lately. It's obvious that Ford has little to no interest in developing any BBF parts or FE parts for that matter. I feel like that part of the market has been handed over anyways.

 

I scratch my head though at the seemingly anemic development and aftermarket promotion of their own Ecoboost line.

 

Ford has exclusives in areas that could be filled by unique engines like the 1.0 3 cylinder Ecoboost or the 2.7 V6 Ecoboost.

 

If Ford made it inexpensive and easier to utilize these platforms they could dominate some important aftermarket categories.

 

There is something missing or there is a disconnect. I don't think FPP is working with a very large budget. I understood that when Ford was reorganizing and restructuring before and during the darker days of our economy. Nowadays though you either lead or follow.

 

The raw materials are there, I wish Ford would capitalize on their uniqueness.

 

For example, where do I go to get the hardware, software and ancillary parts to put a 1.0 Ecoboost in my sand rail. That sport is booming and Ford has virtually no presence there. Opportunity lost, too bad.

 

[akirby]

I'm pretty sure Mark Fields cut that budget over the last 3 years. Maybe the new guy will revive it.

 

However........

 

You have to ask how much profit is really available on these ecoboost engines in the aftermarket especially considering they're more expensive than their NA counterparts and how much extra production capacity exists to make them?

[Stray Kat]

Well it depends on how one looks at things. For example there is a huge number of baby boomer aged car people that are dyed in the wool Gm people primarily on the strength of reputation that the small block Chevy holds.

 

Those baby boomers are getting older and Gm has given Gen X'rs the LS engine which is the most prolific aftermarket supported engine in North America.

 

See those people are also buyers of new vehicles and many of them are attached to Gm products due to the sterling reputation those engine lines hold in their minds.

 

Well the script can be flipped to Ford for a change. When you cater to young enthusiasts you often make them enthusiastic of your product line. Fans if you will.

 

You can choose to either try or not try. Other companies will certainly fill the void. They have done since the advent of the sbc in 1955. Anyone who thinks Ford doesn't think Ford needs to work on their grassroots image is delusional.

 

Ford can do so or not. It's their choice to ignore the young and up and coming buyers at their own peril.

 

I'm calling it how I see it.

[Stray Kat]

I have posted this before but it bears repeating and it is very revealing as to the market that Ford had and truthfully kind of lost, at least its leadership in.

 

To: Mr. Maurice Olley

From: Mr. Z. Arkus-Duntov

Subject: Thoughts Pertaining to Youth, Hot Rodders, and Chevrolet



Date: December 16, 1953

The hot rod movement and interest in things connected with hop-up and speed is still growing. As an indication: the publications devoted to hot rodding and hop-upping, of which some half-dozen have a very large circulation and are distributed nationally, did not exist some 6 years ago. From cover to cover, they are full of Fords. This is not surprising then that the majority of hot-rodders are eating, sleeping, and dreaming modified Fords. They know Ford parts from stem to stern better than the Ford people themselves.



 

A young man buying a magazine for the first time immediately becomes introduced to Ford. It is reasonable to assume that when hot-rodders or hot-rod influenced persons buy transportation, they buy Fords. As they progress in age and income, they graduate from jalopies to second hand Fords, then to new Fords.



 

 

Should we consider that it would be desirable to make these youths Chevrolet-minded? I think that we are in a position to carry out a successful attempt. However, there are many factors against us:



 

1. Loyalty and experience with Ford.


 

2. Hop-up industry is geared to Ford.

 

3. Law of numbers thousands are and will be working on Fords for active competition.

 

4. Appearance of Fords overhead V-8, now one year ahead of us.



 

When a superior line of G.M. V-8s appeared, there where remarkably few attempts to develop these and none too successful. Also, the appearance of the V-8 Chrysler was met with reluctance even though the success of Ardun-Fords conditioned them to the acceptance of Firepower.

 

This year is the first one in which isolated Chrysler developments met with success. The Bonneville records are divided between Ardun-Fords and Chryslers.

 

In the non acceptance of G.M. V-8s and very slow beginning of Chrysler, cost must have played a part.

 

Like all people, hot-rodders are attracted by novelty. However, bitter experience taught them that new development is costly and long and therefore are extremely conservative. From my observation, it takes an advanced hot-rodder some three years to stumble toward the successful development of a new design. Overhead Fords will be in this state in 1956-1957.



 

The slide rule potential of our RPO V-8 engine is extremely high but to let things run their natural course will put us one year behind and then not too many will pick Chevrolet for development.

 

 

It seems that unless by some action the odds and the time factor are not overcome, Ford will continue to dominate the thinking of this group. One factor which can largely overcome this handicap would be the availability of ready engineered parts for higher output.

 

If the use of the Chevrolet engine would be made easy and the very first attempts would be crowned with success, the appeal of the new will take hold and not have the stigma of expensiveness like the Cadillac or Chrysler, a swing to Chevrolet may be anticipated. This means the development of a range of special parts camshafts, valves, springs, manifolds, pistons and such which will be made available to the public.

 

The association of Chevrolet with hot rods, speeds and such is probably inadmissible. But possibly the existence of the Corvette provides the loop hole. If the special parts are carried as RPO items for the Corvette, they undoubtedly will be recognized by the hot rodders as the very parts they were looking for to hop up the Chevy.

 

If it is desirable or not to associate the Corvette with the speed, I am not qualified to say, but I do know that the in 1954, sports car enthusiasts will get hold of Corvettes and whether we like it or not, will race it. Most frequent statement from this group is we will put a Cadillac in it. They are going to, and I think this is not good! Most likely they will meet with Allard trouble that is breaking sooner or later, mostly sooner, everything between the flywheel and road wheels.

 

In 1955, with V-8 engine, if I needed to they will be still outclassed. The market-wise negligible number of cars purchased for competition attracts public attention and publicity out of proportion to their number. Since we cannot prevent the people from racing Corvettes maybe it is better to help them to do a good job at it.

 

To make good in this field, the RPO parts must pertain not only to the engine but to the chassis components as well. Engineering-wise,

Development of these RPO items, as far as the chassis concerned, does not fall out of line with some of the planned activity of our group.

Use of light alloys, and brake development composite drums, disc and such are already on the agenda of the Research and Development group already.

 

As I stated above, V-8 RPO engine has a high power potential it is hard to beat inches, but having only 80% of cubic inches it has 96% of square inches of Pittston area of the Cadillac. In my estimation, the power output comparable to the Cadillac can be obtained not exceeding 270 ft.lb. of torque at any point. (323 ft.lb. of Cadillac)*. The task of making powertrain reliable is therefore easier.





These thoughts are offered for what they are worth: one mans thinking aloud on the subject. 



 

Z. Arkus-Duntov

December 16, 1953

 

Full link:http://www.hotrod.com/articles/the-duntov-letter/

[akirby]

It's a nice theory but there is no data to back it up. It would be nice for Ford fans to have more aftermarket choices but there is no way you can logically tie that to new car sales.

[akirby]

Besides, younger drivers are not nearly as brand loyal as they were 20 or 30 years ago and hotrodding to them is putting on a tune or body kit, not dropping in a crate engine.

[Stray Kat]

Yes and it's hard for me to understand how many cars NASCAR sells but they still spend a fortune in it.

 

It's called brand presence and recognition.

[Stray Kat]

Like I said an organization can choose to participate or not. There certainly isn't anything compelling Ford to promote the Ecoboost line to the young and possibly future customers right?

[akirby]

There certainly isn't anything compelling Ford to promote the Ecoboost line to the young and possibly future customers right?

 

The question is whether the "young and possibly future customers" care about ecoboost crate engines. My guess is 99.99% don't. The days of hotrodding and swapping out engines are long gone. You're talking about millenials who don't even get their license until they're 18 or 19 in some cases (or later).

[akirby]

I can't imagine that Ford is spending very much on NASCAR right now and what little they do spend is out of loyalty to Roush and the Wood brothers. NASCAR fans are either brand agnostic and just root for certain drivers or they're 100% brand loyal to Chevy or Ford already.

[Stray Kat]

Ain't no way to win this, naysayers gonna nay say.

[akirby]

Just because the truth isn't what you want to hear it doesn't make me a naysayer. This isn't the 60s and 70s where teenagers were buying cheap cars and swapping engines and building hotrods.

 

Your entire premise is that folks who buy aftermarket LS engines buy new Chevys because of it. My premise is that the people buying aftermarket LS engines are doing so because they are already Chevy fans and would be buying Chevys anyway. The vast majority of those are going into Camaros, Chevelles, Corvettes and Silverados which people bought in the first place because they like Chevys.

 

Back to Ford - you can buy the following crate engines directly from Ford:

 

5 different Coyote 5.0L DOHC

4 pushrod Boss 302s

4 pushrod Boss 351s

2 Boss 460s

3 Boss 347 race engines

 

2.0L Ecoboost

2.3L Ecoboost

3.5L Ecoboost

 

Where are they lacking?

[fuzzymoomoo]

I wonder if I can do a 2.0EB swap into my Focus ?

[sullynd]

There's no crate GAA engine.

 

[akirby]

There's no crate GAA engine.

 

 

I don't think FedEx would ship a 18L block!

[Stray Kat]

Just because the truth isn't what you want to hear it doesn't make me a naysayer. This isn't the 60s and 70s where teenagers were buying cheap cars and swapping engines and building hotrods.

 

Your entire premise is that folks who buy aftermarket LS engines buy new Chevys because of it. My premise is that the people buying aftermarket LS engines are doing so because they are already Chevy fans and would be buying Chevys anyway. The vast majority of those are going into Camaros, Chevelles, Corvettes and Silverados which people bought in the first place because they like Chevys.

 

Back to Ford - you can buy the following crate engines directly from Ford:

 

5 different Coyote 5.0L DOHC

4 pushrod Boss 302s

4 pushrod Boss 351s

2 Boss 460s

3 Boss 347 race engines

 

2.0L Ecoboost

2.3L Ecoboost

3.5L Ecoboost

 

 

 

Where are they lacking?

 

 

The question is "where are they lacking?"

 

Hmmm let me think.

 

First of all you are the one who brought up "crate" engines. A hot rodder rarely buys a crate engine. A hot rodder usually buys an engine from a salvage yard or builds an engine to his or her own specs.

 

Being that I'm into hot rodding early cars I'll tell you that none of the crate engines you listed are compatible in their current form with early car chassis. The SBF's are too long and require short front dress assemblies.

 

When you receive the crate engine you must immediately remove the front cover and replace it with a properly short timing cover and water pump. At that point you need pullies and brackets. Show me where I can get those from Ford.

 

Moreover why can't I buy a properly dressed SBF the likes of which I don't have to modify upon delivery.

 

Next tell me why I cannot easily retrofit an EB 3 cylinder to my rock crawler or sand rail. We see Ford teasing us with the Hot Wheels project I submitted earlier. When that project debuted at SEMA a few years ago I thought wow they are onto something, but again so far nothing that I can find. Opportunity lost.

 

Ford is falling behind or was never in many important enthusiast activities.

 

I'll say it again it's their choice for their own level of involvement in anything of course but it's a shame to see them miss opportunity.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Stray Kat

[tbone]

I'm pretty sure Mark Fields cut that budget over the last 3 years. Maybe the new guy will revive it.

 

However........

 

You have to ask how much profit is really available on these ecoboost engines in the aftermarket especially considering they're more expensive than their NA counterparts and how much extra production capacity exists to make them?

I don't think this is entirely the point. It seems like Ford is missing an opportunity in the tuning and hard part aspect as well. Think of all the younger generation out there that had gotten into tuning of the Imports related to The Fast and Furious craze. There are still people interested in improving the performance of their cars and trucks that Ford hasn't seemed to be very aggressive and targeting, even though they have a division that is supposed to be doing this . The EcoBoost line seems to be very tunable based on what I've seen from the aftermarket industry. So why dont they attempt to profit from this? I think it goes beyond the crate motors that can be installed in vehicles.

[akirby]

I don't think this is entirely the point. It seems like Ford is missing an opportunity in the tuning and hard part aspect as well. Think of all the younger generation out there that had gotten into tuning of the Imports related to The Fast and Furious craze. There are still people interested in improving the performance of their cars and trucks that Ford hasn't seemed to be very aggressive and targeting, even though they have a division that is supposed to be doing this . The EcoBoost line seems to be very tunable based on what I've seen from the aftermarket industry. So why dont they attempt to profit from this? I think it goes beyond the crate motors that can be installed in vehicles.

But they do have factory authorized tunes with full warranty for focus and mustang. So they're not totally ignoring the market. But I agree they're not as aggressive as they could be especially on other vehicles like the Edge.

[akirby]

So if the issue isn't crate engines then what the heck do you expect Ford to do about it? Are you just talking about parts availability? Or are you seriously saying that Ford should design new engines that someone can easily buy in a junkyard and transplant to another vehicle? Why on earth would Ford care about something that provides them absolutely $0 revenue?

 

Or do you think Ford should compromise their current designs which they use in a few million vehicles per year at an average cost of $35K just so a few hundred folks can fit them into their restoration projects?

 

As for folks putting a Ford crate engine in an older hot rod - how many do you think there are in a year? 50? 100? 200? That's a tiny tiny market segment and simply isn't worth the investment.

 

You also have to consider that some of Ford's production engines may be capacity constrained and the cost to add capacity just to sell a handful of crate engines is prohibitive.

 

 

I get why you and some others want this and would benefit from it. But I don't see the benefit for Ford to do some of the things you want.

 

I agree they could have more parts available but I suspect that was due to Fields cost cutting.

[tbone]

But they do have factory authorized tunes with full warranty for focus and mustang. So they're not totally ignoring the market. But I agree they're not as aggressive as they could be especially on other vehicles like the Edge.

Not to mention the X00,000 Eco-boosted F150s, Explorers, Expeditions, and Fusions. That's $500-$600, or whatever price they want to charge, per vehicle on missed opportunities on tunes alone. That could be substantial money to the bottom line.

[akirby]

The cost to develop and test such a tune isn't trivial - I'd guess at least $100K in labor alone. And outside of Focus and Mustang the market for such a tune is more limited.

 

I'm just trying to point out that there isn't as much profit being left on the table as some might think.

[tbone]

I recognize that it's not free, and I don't know how much it cost either. Perhaps Brucelinc can provide an idea for the cost.