theoldwizard Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Some what related to all of this .... What were the big changes in the "new" 3.5L engine over the older one ? Is it related to the 2.7/3.0L engine ? Is the 3.7L (based on the "old" 3.5L) discontinued ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Some what related to all of this .... What were the big changes in the "new" 3.5L engine over the older one ? Is it related to the 2.7/3.0L engine ? Is the 3.7L (based on the "old" 3.5L) discontinued ? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Second Gen Ecoboost 3.5 is still a Cyclone based engine...better fuel delivery for more power and other changes The 3.3L NA is a downsized Cyclone V6 The 3.7L is still around for the time being in MKX and Conti as the base engine The 2.7 and 3.0L V6 are new gen engines that aren't related to the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Second Gen Ecoboost 3.5 is still a Cyclone based engine...better fuel delivery for more power and other changes The 3.3L NA is a downsized Cyclone V6 The 3.7L is still around for the time being in MKX and Conti as the base engine The 2.7 and 3.0L V6 are new gen engines that aren't related to the above. I think he was referring to the changes to the 3.5L cyclone a few years back. Maybe in conjunction with the F150? The 3.5 NA Cyclone is still used in Edge and the D3/D4 vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packardbob Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just out of curiosity-just what was the US diesel problem? -let's say from 1989 on when "premium diesel" was a specific marketing effort by most suppliers featuring additized diesel. And these additized packages were improved to comprehend the lost lubricity associated with reduced sulfur content. Perhaps quality isn't the correct term, or perhaps it is. I don't know if quality improves during the refining process to get the diesel down to 15ppm, but I know the refining process used to get the sulfur content that low removes a lot of the fuels lubricity. Even at 15ppm, our fuel is still not as low as what the EU mandates. The EU started mandating ULSD before the US. I thought they started mandating it before 1999 as stated above, however I cant find any references to show that. I do know they didn't do it all at once, they phased it in over several years and now I believe they are down to 10 ppm with some countries electing to go even less that than. Just as using ULSD in some older diesels without running an additive will ruin injection pumps, using regular diesel in a newer engine designed for ULSD will damage fuel injection and emission components. The only places around here I see premium diesel advertised at the pump are at farmers coops and from what I can tell, they have additives that help keep fuel systems clean to reduce downtime and restore some of the lost lubricity of the fuel. I think it is like choosing a gas station to fill your car up with. The only difference in the gasoline at the different stations is the additive package. With all the problems the 6.0 had, I still like them. My 52 International truck project will be getting either a VT275 (6.0 with two cylinders chopped off) or a DT360. The head gaskets and EGR coolers have been fixed by the aftermarket (studs, oring the heads, and a delete or Bulletproof) and the bottom ends of these engines are stout. They can be made to be extremely reliable, however, I wouldn't touch a 6.4 with a 10 foot pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 We have a couple 6.4's in our little fleet and one 6.0. The 6.4's have been trouble free and they get worked pretty hard. The one 6.0 we have is still together but the cranking times are getting longer. That's gonna require some attention I'm afraid. All these trucks are over 150,000 miles and they are F350's. I've heard talk about the 6.4's but so far they've been good for us. BTW our Ford trucks are really great for their intended purpose. Some will say they don't ride as nice as the competition but these are some damn good work trucks. You feel like you're sitting in and steering a very well built truck. These are industrial grade tools in my opinion. The others not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Some what related to all of this .... What were the big changes in the "new" 3.5L engine over the older one ? Is it related to the 2.7/3.0L engine ? Is the 3.7L (based on the "old" 3.5L) discontinued ? A new aluminum block casting, bucket tappet valvetrain has been replaced with roller finger followers for reduced friction and improved NVH. The new 3.5L EcoBoost also employs PFDI, port & direct injection system for improved emissions. The turbochargers are also new for 2017. The 3.7 NA V6 is still in the Continental for now, not sure of other applications. Edited August 29, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 The 3.7 NA V6 is still in the Continental for now, not sure of other applications. MkX, MkT, PI, PIU, Transit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 So to round this conversation out what we had with the 6.0 was a contractor (Ford) securing a supplier (Navistar) who subbed the work out to a specialized manufacturer (MAN). If that's correct it still doesn't answer the basic question of how involved were Ford engineers and resources involved in any and all of these processes? Did Ford just stroke a check or did they work with Navistar/MAN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) So to round this conversation out what we had with the 6.0 was a contractor (Ford) securing a supplier (Navistar) who subbed the work out to a specialized manufacturer (MAN). If that's correct it still doesn't answer the basic question of how involved were Ford engineers and resources involved in any and all of these processes? Did Ford just stroke a check or did they work with Navistar/MAN? My understanding is that Ford had some involvement in parts selection and much more involvement in the engine's parameters. If memory serves, Ford insisted on the V8 configuration and 4v/cyl. I also remember hearing that Ford vetoed the use of Bosch injection, opting for Siemens(?) instead. I would not be surprised to find out that Ford was most heavily involved in writing the engine control software. Edited August 31, 2017 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 It doesn't take much to be wrong with project coordination or development to allow problems to sneak through, Ford showed how to do it better with the 6.7 Powerstroke, I believe that engine development was done by a Swiss contractor but again like Richard said above, a lot of the controls and management were done by Ford themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 It doesn't take much to be wrong with project coordination or development to allow problems to sneak through, Ford showed how to do it better with the 6.7 Powerstroke, I believe that engine development was done by a Swiss contractor but again like Richard said above, a lot of the controls and management were done by Ford themselves I do believe AVL was the primary contractor and I think they are in Austria. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I do believe AVL was the primary contractor and I think they are in Austria. Thanks for the Assist there Bob, the moment I saw AVL it all came back to me. The 6.7 has done a great job of healing a lot of the older Powerstroke wounds and encouraging new trust in Ford diesels, so I wonder what the next move will be for Ford in full sized trucks outside of the 3.0 Powerstroke, I wonder if they'd consider the 4.4 V8 as well - seems like a fine engine with plenty of torque....Maybe it's on the bench in case fuel prices soar again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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