Jump to content

Ford Patents Removable Steering Wheel/Pedals for Self Driving Cars


Recommended Posts

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/08/16/ford-patents-removable-steering-wheel-pedals-self-driving-car/#slide-6846083

 

 

 

With future regulations regarding autonomous vehicles still unclear, this patent illustrates a possible solution for a time when certain locales or driving scenarios would still require driver controls. It would allow Ford to build and deliver the same car to a customer who doesn't want a steering wheel or pedals, and to one in a country or state where the law places limits on self-driving cars.

 

More at the link.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some would say to that Ford is missing the point of autonomous cars.

I'm not following you here. This allows them to sell the same SAE autonomy level 5 car even in markets where it's not legal to operate at level 5. It also allows owners of level 5 cars to drive them in markets that don't allow level 5 autonomy--f'rinstance, if Oklahoma allows level 5 and Texas doesn't, I could plug in the controls and drive the car in Texas instead of having to take a different vehicle.

Edited by SoonerLS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In order for autonomous cars to become a reality, there must be a nation-wide standard for autonomy level, ect.. This is being hashed out as we speak. The whole point of autonomous cars is to eliminate car ownership and use as we presently know it. Car ownership is basically reduced to a device app, User wants to go somewhere, summons autonomous car, car arrives and takes user to destination, car goes to next user. No need to own, drive, insure, maintain, wash, or garage the car. User only pays for use. The cars themselves are generic transportation devices, owned by the service provider, electric, short range. Absolutely no need for any controls whatsoever, in fact having controls raises liability issues. Need to go further take rail or plane. Since the cars will be purchased and owned by Silicon Valley tech. companies, manufacturing will likely be done by their current suppliers (that means China). Remember these guys were making noise a few years ago about investing/partnering/buying car companies? Don't hear about it anymore because they figured out they don't need them! An overall standard for autonomy will certainly happen for no other reason that to allow the providers to use the same transportation appliance (car) in every area they operate in.

 

Sounds scary, doesn't it? This is the vision some people have. Uber and Lyft are only the beginning as they see it.

 

https://waymo.com/

Edited by 7Mary3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In order for autonomous cars to become a reality, there must be a nation-wide standard for autonomy level, ect.. This is being hashed out as we speak. The whole point of autonomous cars is to eliminate car ownership and use as we presently know it. Car ownership is basically reduced to a device app, User wants to go somewhere, summons autonomous car, car arrives and takes user to destination, car goes to next user. No need to own, drive, insure, maintain, wash, or garage the car. User only pays for use. The cars themselves are generic transportation devices, owned by the service provider, electric, short range. Absolutely no need for any controls whatsoever, in fact having controls raises liability issues. Need to go further take rail or plane. Since the cars will be purchased and owned by Silicon Valley tech. companies, manufacturing will likely be done by their current suppliers (that means China). Remember these guys were making noise a few years ago about investing/partnering/buying car companies? Don't hear about it anymore because they figured out they don't need them! An overall standard for autonomy will certainly happen for no other reason that to allow the providers to use the same transportation appliance (car) in every area they operate in.

 

Sounds scary, doesn't it? This is the vision some people have. Uber and Lyft are only the beginning as they see it.

 

https://waymo.com/

 

 

The thing is that people still actually enjoy driving and lets not forget about the insurance industry and local towns/municipalities (and others) losing money because of self driving cars not getting into accidents or breaking the law. Cars are also status symbols for people.

 

Not mention this is being driven by Silicon Valley, which has no concept of making durable goods (useable lifespan of an electronic item is around 5 years, it becomes "obsolete" within 24 months), since they survive on making the latest and greatest items to keep profits rolling in (see Cell phones, high end video cards etc)

 

Not to mention when Autonomous cars become more common- how the courts are going to treat when these vehicles decide who to kill..Mercedes states they already said they aren't going allow their products to kill their driver intentionally, so if a family member gets killed by someone is operating/in one of them, doesn't that make Mercedes cupula for murder?

 

This isn't going to happen anytime soon...you won't see a major penetration of self driving vehicles for at least another 10 years...if not longer,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In order for autonomous cars to become a reality, there must be a nation-wide standard for autonomy level, ect.. This is being hashed out as we speak. The whole point of autonomous cars is to eliminate car ownership and use as we presently know it. Car ownership is basically reduced to a device app, User wants to go somewhere, summons autonomous car, car arrives and takes user to destination, car goes to next user. No need to own, drive, insure, maintain, wash, or garage the car. User only pays for use. The cars themselves are generic transportation devices, owned by the service provider, electric, short range. Absolutely no need for any controls whatsoever, in fact having controls raises liability issues. Need to go further take rail or plane. Since the cars will be purchased and owned by Silicon Valley tech. companies, manufacturing will likely be done by their current suppliers (that means China). Remember these guys were making noise a few years ago about investing/partnering/buying car companies? Don't hear about it anymore because they figured out they don't need them! An overall standard for autonomy will certainly happen for no other reason that to allow the providers to use the same transportation appliance (car) in every area they operate in.

 

Sounds scary, doesn't it? This is the vision some people have. Uber and Lyft are only the beginning as they see it.

 

https://waymo.com/

 

That's all fine and dandy, but even if or when we do get to that point, there's going to be a transition period where some vehicles are capable, some aren't, some places allow them, some don't, etc. This patent points toward that transition period.

 

And I also agree with silvrsvt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are both correct. But, do not underestimate how hard the people behind this nonsense are going to push for it. And also keep in mind a sizable segment of the population.(particularly young people) actually like the idea. Autonomous car services will be sold on safety, convenience, and environmental factors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are both correct. But, do not underestimate how hard the people behind this nonsense are going to push for it. And also keep in mind a sizable segment of the population.(particularly young people) actually like the idea. Autonomous car services will be sold on safety, convenience, and environmental factors.

 

Safety shmafety! There are 10's of thousands of miles of road in this country that are just not compatible for autonomous vehicles. It would take many many billions of dollars given to rural communities to make all roads autonomous-capable. It ain't happening in the near future no matter how much the people behind the nonsense push for it. Semi-autonomous? Sure, but not full-autonomy. This patent by Ford is a great step for bridging that (really large) gap.

 

Hell, my GPS can't even determine my address correctly, and I'm one of millions of people that live in rural areas with inaccurate GPS information.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Safety shmafety! There are 10's of thousands of miles of road in this country that are just not compatible for autonomous vehicles. It would take many many billions of dollars given to rural communities to make all roads autonomous-capable. It ain't happening in the near future no matter how much the people behind the nonsense push for it. Semi-autonomous? Sure, but not full-autonomy. This patent by Ford is a great step for bridging that (really large) gap.

 

Hell, my GPS can't even determine my address correctly, and I'm one of millions of people that live in rural areas with inaccurate GPS information.

 

Don't also discount weather related issues and hacking/spoofing of LIDAR and other systems on these vehicles.

 

I wonder how they are going to handle snow banks in parking lots and outside of peoples houses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Don't also discount weather related issues and hacking/spoofing of LIDAR and other systems on these vehicles.

 

I wonder how they are going to handle snow banks in parking lots and outside of peoples houses.

 

Exactly! There is so much that a brain processes that cannot be programmed into AI yet. Yes, machine learning has come along way, but look at all of the 'out of the ordinary' scenarios you encounter every day on your drive, and try to figure out how to program for something like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Don't also discount weather related issues and hacking/spoofing of LIDAR and other systems on these vehicles.

 

I wonder how they are going to handle snow banks in parking lots and outside of peoples houses.

 

That's not to even mention people that deface the traffic signs - I read an article last week or so that showed some of these automated systems read a stop sign as speed limit signs just by putting some tape or graffiti on them.....

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/3654164/altered-stop-signs-fool-self-driving_cars/

Edited by rmc523
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Technology will solve all those issues. Eventually.

 

But autonomous cars can go so much further to solving social-economic and environmental issues. In addition to the obvious environmental factors, consider that everyone will be driving, ah, oops, riding in the same the same transportation device (that they do not own), consider the effect on class envy. Everyone is equal in an autonomous car, no Mercedes-Benz, no Escalade's, no Kia's. That alone will produce a calming effect in metropolitan areas, and auto theft would disappear, and there could even be a subsequent positive effect on violent crimes rates.

 

Keep in mind that it may very well be impossible for any level of vehicles under level 5 full automation to exist with any other vehicles. I think that will keep autonomous vehicles from happening short-term, it will likely be an all-or-nothing scenario. But if it happens, it will be quick. Of course they will have to be major improvements and modifications to infrastructure, but what local government would ever refuse an opportunity to spend money on projects like that? Particularly if much of that money is coming from the Feds? For those who think they will not be forced into these things, also consider when (not if) these vehicles prove to be demonstrably safer than traditional cars, how will you get insurance? Or even fuel if demand falls so much gas stations and refineries start closing?

 

There are people out there that believe this kind of drivel!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

But autonomous cars can go so much further to solving social-economic and environmental issues. In addition to the obvious environmental factors, consider that everyone will be driving, ah, oops, riding in the same the same transportation device (that they do not own), consider the effect on class envy. Everyone is equal in an autonomous car, no Mercedes-Benz, no Escalade's, no Kia's. That alone will produce a calming effect in metropolitan areas, and auto theft would disappear, and there could even be a subsequent positive effect on violent crimes rates.

 

Keep in mind that it may very well be impossible for any level of vehicles under level 5 full automation to exist with any other vehicles. I think that will keep autonomous vehicles from happening short-term, it will likely be an all-or-nothing scenario. But if it happens, it will be quick. Of course they will have to be major improvements and modifications to infrastructure, but what local government would ever refuse an opportunity to spend money on projects like that? Particularly if much of that money is coming from the Feds? For those who think they will not be forced into these things, also consider when (not if) these vehicles prove to be demonstrably safer than traditional cars, how will you get insurance? Or even fuel if demand falls so much gas stations and refineries start closing?

 

 

 

The thing is that its NOT going to happen quick. You're not going to replace millions of cars on the road that have no automation overnight. Keep in mind that average age of car before it's replaced is up to 11.5 years now.

 

Local/Federal governments have a hard enough time keeping the current local infrastructure (i.e. roads/bridges) barely operational for regular cars...you expect them to spend even more to add additional sensors and what not to support autonomous vehicles?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Technology will solve all those issues. Eventually.

 

But autonomous cars can go so much further to solving social-economic and environmental issues. In addition to the obvious environmental factors, consider that everyone will be driving, ah, oops, riding in the same the same transportation device (that they do not own), consider the effect on class envy. Everyone is equal in an autonomous car, no Mercedes-Benz, no Escalade's, no Kia's. That alone will produce a calming effect in metropolitan areas, and auto theft would disappear, and there could even be a subsequent positive effect on violent crimes rates.

 

Keep in mind that it may very well be impossible for any level of vehicles under level 5 full automation to exist with any other vehicles. I think that will keep autonomous vehicles from happening short-term, it will likely be an all-or-nothing scenario. But if it happens, it will be quick. Of course they will have to be major improvements and modifications to infrastructure, but what local government would ever refuse an opportunity to spend money on projects like that? Particularly if much of that money is coming from the Feds? For those who think they will not be forced into these things, also consider when (not if) these vehicles prove to be demonstrably safer than traditional cars, how will you get insurance? Or even fuel if demand falls so much gas stations and refineries start closing?

 

There are people out there that believe this kind of drivel!

 

What are you talking about? (EDIT: I wrote this before seeing the last sentence, but it still is a good counter argument to everything said in the post)

 

Autonomous cars won't suddenly create a utopian society where everyone is equal "just because." Wealthy people will want the "luxury" autonomous car to pick them up with the champagne cooler in it and the reclining leather massage seats. You think just because the car is autonomous, they won't want a more luxurious experience on the ride wherever they're going? And they'll pay accordingly. There will too be Mercedes, Ford, Kia, Cadillac versions - sure, perhaps not as many models as today, but there will still be brands of autonomous vehicles that will be at a lower price point (and ride costs will be at that lower point), and brands at a higher price point (that cost more to ride in).

 

There will be nothing quick about any sort of transition to autonomous cars - no matter what level of autonomy they achieve. You think that once a fully autonomous car is available, everyone is just going to immediately hop in some line to turn their car in to the crusher so we can all have them? Any autonomous car that requires such an "all or nothing" approach is DOA outside of test-bed areas/neighborhoods. Decades down the road - maybe, but now or within the next few years? You're fooling yourself.

 

 

Oh wait.....your last sentence might've refuted my points directed at you haha......in the sense that you were just pointing out what some people think. So in that case, my reply is directed at those people, not you haha.

Edited by rmc523
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are both correct. But, do not underestimate how hard the people behind this nonsense are going to push for it. And also keep in mind a sizable segment of the population.(particularly young people) actually like the idea. Autonomous car services will be sold on safety, convenience, and environmental factors.

There are a lot of people that are still rejecting 6 cylinder engines and front wheel drive.I can't imagine this being accepted any time soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Safety shmafety! There are 10's of thousands of miles of road in this country that are just not compatible for autonomous vehicles. It would take many many billions of dollars given to rural communities to make all roads autonomous-capable. It ain't happening in the near future no matter how much the people behind the nonsense push for it. Semi-autonomous? Sure, but not full-autonomy. This patent by Ford is a great step for bridging that (really large) gap.

 

Hell, my GPS can't even determine my address correctly, and I'm one of millions of people that live in rural areas with inaccurate GPS information.

 

 

Can't even get consistent cell service in my town, and I'm smack in the middle of NJ.

Maybe these tech guys can work on that first.

 

Going to be hysterical to watch a fully auton car with no controls park itself in a temp

lot made in a field, at the local county fair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Can't even get consistent cell service in my town, and I'm smack in the middle of NJ.

Maybe these tech guys can work on that first.

 

Going to be hysterical to watch a fully auton car with no controls park itself in a temp

lot made in a field, at the local county fair.

 

Or back my fifth wheel into it's spot at the campground. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, thank God. For a moment there, I was afraid we were going to have to come visit you at the funny farm. :kookie:

 

No! Not me! I bring this all up because there are those who really think this is the future, that these asinine ideas (more like delusions) will lead to some kind of modern utopia. As auto enthusiasts we need to keep a close eye on this movement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

No! Not me! I bring this all up because there are those who really think this is the future, that these asinine ideas (more like delusions) will lead to some kind of modern utopia. As auto enthusiasts we need to keep a close eye on this movement.

I can assure you that I do not underestimate that group of people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Going to be hysterical to watch a fully auton car with no controls park itself in a tem

lot made in a field, at the local county fair.

Heck, how will it handle parking in a lot that's covered with snow? Or the stoplight on the west end of the US77 bridge across the Canadian River that is currently disabled to keep traffic from backing up onto the Bridge Of Doom? The lights were disabled by covering them with plastic and they set stop signs on the cross street, but the plastic recently came off one of the lights--a human can look at that and reason out that the light is disabled, but what about a self-driving car? The rules of the road say that a stoplight that's out is supposed to be treated as a 4-way stop, so will it follow the lead of the humans and blow through the intersection, or will it follow the rules of the road and stop? Even if the people behind it stop (despite knowing that there's no reason to do so), it will still back up traffic onto the bridge, which is what ODOT is trying to avoid. (The bridge was closed for about a year while they performed emergency repairs, but that bridge is in dire need of replacement.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...