rmc523 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/gmcom/investor/2017/aug/Deliveries-July-2017.pdf Cadillac down another 21.7%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 GM has almost 1M vehicles in inventory. Ford has just over 600K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Fun fact, Lincoln's 2 sedans outsold Cadillac's 4 in July, 3,366 to 2,996. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Fun fact, Lincoln's 2 sedans outsold Cadillac's 4 in July, 3,366 to 2,996.Funnier fact Caddy's 2 utilities outsold Lincoln's 5 with CT6 outselling not only the Continental but Cadillac's other cars. Oh Lexus outsold Caddy and Lincoln combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Funniest fact - Ford probably spent a fraction of what GM spent comparing Ford's 5 utilities (all built on shared/common pre-existing platforms) to GM's 4 sedans. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Funnier fact Caddy's 2 utilities outsold Lincoln's 5 with CT6 outselling not only the Continental but Cadillac's other cars. Oh Lexus outsold Caddy and Lincoln combined. You're right, Caddy did outsell Lincoln's crossovers/SUVs. Having a model that dates back to 2007 (with the body back to 2003) in the lineup doesn't exactly help that. Caddy is also far further along in their turnaround and has a better reputation, so I'd hope they'd outsell it. My point was more that Cadillac spent umpteen billions on those sedans, and Lincoln spending a fraction is outselling them. CT6 is not outselling Continental, so I'm not sure what you're saying there. Of the 11 months Continental has been on sale, CT6 has outsold it in 4 months. One of the four was the the first month Conti was on sale, and one of those, CT6 outsold it by 5 units. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 GM sales down and inventory up, time for more incentives? Let's see how long GM can hold tough on prices before it needs to shift those parking lots.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) Looks like the Chinese built Envision is selling ok...oh the horror!!!! Edited August 1, 2017 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Funniest fact - Ford probably spent a fraction of what GM spent comparing Ford's 5 utilities (all built on shared/common pre-existing platforms) to GM's 4 sedans. Hilarious everyone in this forum thinks they know how much GM spent on Caddy except GM, is Cadillac bleeding money?. Let's see what's a unique car for Caddy; CT6 = Zeta based ATS/CTS = Camaro Escalade = GM pick-up XTS = Impala XT5 = Acadia Let's add some future models XT4 = Equinox/Terrain XT6 = Traverse/Enclave CT5/CT4 = Camaro CT6 you might have a point but that too may not stay lonely and I doubt that cost $12 Billion, as I said before big lux buyers want the real deal not a enhanced famliy car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdegrand Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Chevy Silverado sales down 15%.....and yet they are running a new series of attack Ford ads. This type of personal attack is unprecedented in the industry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Chevy Silverado sales down 15%.....and yet they are running a new series of attack Ford ads. This type of personal attack is unprecedented in the industry. is it really? They've been doing it for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Hilarious everyone in this forum thinks they know how much GM spent on Caddy except GM, is Cadillac bleeding money?. Let's see what's a unique car for Caddy; CT6 = Zeta based ATS/CTS = Camaro Escalade = GM pick-up XTS = Impala XT5 = Acadia Let's add some future models XT4 = Equinox/Terrain XT6 = Traverse/Enclave CT5/CT4 = Camaro CT6 you might have a point but that too may not stay lonely and I doubt that cost $12 Billion, as I said before big lux buyers want the real deal not a enhanced famliy car. I'm not sure what your point is? CT6 is on the Omega platform, not Zeta. Camaro was a late addition to Alpha in an attempt to get some decent ROI on the program. Just because they have several models using GM platforms doesn't mean they haven't spent billions upon billions on the ones that aren't. Your list doesn't even include the billions they spent on Sigma, which they just discarded in order to make Alpha and Omega. If you think GM has recouped their Alpha investment with perpetually declining ATS and CTS sales and tepid Camaro sales, then I have some oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 We just had an example of this with Q2 results, after tax there was about $400 Million between GM and Ford's result. Sure GM spends a lot but it also makes a lot and as we know that sort of product gearing has its god and bad points. Since project costs are mostly paid up front, I'm prepared to concede that GM is probably breaking even on its low selling Cadillac cars but making a bundle on the Utilities. Over at Chevrolet and GMC, GM is making a bomb on trucks and SUVs. What will be interesting is how GM, Ford and FCA work through declining car sales and replace them with more Utility and truck sales. Managing change is more critical than actual sales at the moment as evidenced by inventory levels - do automakers press with incentives when interest rates are going up and residuals are declining..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) I'm not sure what your point is? CT6 is on the Omega platform, not Zeta. The central shell and subframe of the CT6 is a modified WM Caprice module, the front and rear modules are new. Camaro was a late addition to Alpha in an attempt to get some decent ROI on the program. Ok, but Camaro is still on Alpha... Just because they have several models using GM platforms doesn't mean they haven't spent billions upon billions on the ones that aren't. What company doesn't spend money on product?. You think everything Lincoln makes don't cost anything to Ford?, I know if im buying luxury I don't buy because the platform saved the company money (aka cheap to make). Your list doesn't even include the billions they spent on Sigma, which they just discarded in order to make Alpha and Omega. Wow, Sigma?. So you want GM to keep making 2 old cars (Camaro, CTS) in separate factories with separate platforms?. Real savings right there... If you think GM has recouped their Alpha investment with perpetually declining ATS and CTS sales and tepid Camaro sales, then I have some oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you. Sound almost ridiculous as making old cars in separate factories to "save" money. Since Alpha was bought under "new-GM" from the BK, it technically didn't cost anything. Edited August 2, 2017 by Fgts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Ok, but Camaro is still on Alpha... Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that platform supposed to be Caddilac exclusive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that platform supposed to be Caddilac exclusive? Alpha was/is a Pontiac/Caddy platform that have old Kappa platform (Solstice/Sky) origins. The 11' G6 was to debut with ATS pre-BK plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Regardless of what platforms are what and get in pedantic arguments. Let's just say Cadillac is not meeting their sales goals/expectations with the sedans they have. I would guess that Lincoln may be closer to their sales goals at this given time than Cadillac. Does that sound like a fair and accurate statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Oh Lexus outsold Caddy and Lincoln combined. There you go! Thanks for reminding everyone who the real competition is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 There you go! Thanks for reminding everyone who the real competition is! Agreed. There is a lot of talk about how Ford compares to GM and Chrysler, but for me, I think the discussion must include the foreign brands as well. They are formidable competitors and need to be dealt with head on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) Alpha was/is a Pontiac/Caddy platform that have old Kappa platform (Solstice/Sky) origins. The 11' G6 was to debut with ATS pre-BK plans. It was sent back to the drawing board where GM took more weight out and re-engineered the vehicle as a premium platform with layer build and mixed material construction. There's no doubt that GM spent a lot more time, resources and money on getting the Alpha platform right... the only problem was that BMW changed the sizes of it 3 and 5 series cars, something GM could have never anticipated. Edited August 2, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Agreed. There is a lot of talk about how Ford compares to GM and Chrysler, but for me, I think the discussion must include the foreign brands as well. They are formidable competitors and need to be dealt with head on. While it's important to understand what competitors are offering, it's also important to know what your customers want and unfortunately, Cadillac bet heavily on cars ahead of more Utilities. I think it matters little in the overall scheme of things as GM and Ford will lay off a lot of their costs on their Chinese divisions where profit split with CH govt is more concerning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I think it matters little in the overall scheme of things as GM and Ford will lay off a lot of their costs on their Chinese divisions where profit split with CH govt is more concerning. I can assure you this is very concerning for me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Excuses, excuses, what's the deal with the "Cadillac coffee shop"? And who actually drives in Manhattan like the ads? Huge waste of money moving offices to anti car NYC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) Excuses, excuses, what's the deal with the "Cadillac coffee shop"? And who actually drives in Manhattan like the ads? Huge waste of money moving offices to anti car NYC. A couple of million to attract hipsters...I don't think that Cadillac's target audience (for cars at least) don't really like Cadillac Edited August 3, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I can assure you this is very concerning for me as well. Ford is all over the map at the moment, Fields tried to coast through the recession with cars and utilities at hand now Hackett has the job of correcting that and getting Ford back into the game, not just doing the easy stuff.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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