fuzzymoomoo Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 ^agreed. Ford's packaging is a mess. There's is absolutely no reason why the cold weather package on the Escape and Fusion (probably others. Haven't really looked.) doesn't have a heated steering wheel in it. I know it's relatively minor but I shouldn't have to order the luxury package for literally one thing I want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 ^agreed. Ford's packaging is a mess. There's is absolutely no reason why the cold weather package on the Escape and Fusion (probably others. Haven't really looked.) doesn't have a heated steering wheel in it. I know it's relatively minor but I shouldn't have to order the luxury package for literally one thing I want. Exactly - The packaging is just a mess on everything -- even the F-150 is stupid, its confusion people are paying for things they don't want -- and they know it because its called right out on the window sticker of the cost. They need to combine things and stop with all the free standing options. Simplifying ordering means people can find the car they want, The options that are on a Fusion SE are just stupid, there are more option combinations on just that Trim line than are entire Camry and Accord lines, COMBINED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 The problem is the packages themselves, not the free standing options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 When we bought our Reserve MKX last year I was shocked that we had to add the driver, technology and climate package to get the features we wanted. And because we did not want to wait 2 months to special order we ended up without the driver's package which I wanted. None of that stuff should have been optional on a Reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Exactly - The packaging is just a mess on everything -- even the F-150 is stupid, its confusion people are paying for things they don't want -- and they know it because its called right out on the window sticker of the cost. They need to combine things and stop with all the free standing options. Simplifying ordering means people can find the car they want, The options that are on a Fusion SE are just stupid, there are more option combinations on just that Trim line than are entire Camry and Accord lines, COMBINED! You complain that buyers have to pay for things they don't want in packages, but then don't want free standing options? Which is it? I won't pretend to know how to better combined things, but do you have something in mind? When we bought our Reserve MKX last year I was shocked that we had to add the driver, technology and climate package to get the features we wanted. And because we did not want to wait 2 months to special order we ended up without the driver's package which I wanted. None of that stuff should have been optional on a Reserve. Yeah, I have to agree.....the top trims should have a lot of things standard. Black Label models don't have any of those packages standard either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 The problem is the packages themselves, not the free standing options. It is all of it -- There should be at most 2 option packages and 1 or 2 freestanding options if any. (F-150 and Transit having more but still combining a lot) It just adds to manufacturing complexity, reliability issue and cost it drives are high for no actual reason. There are huge cost savings as well. You don't need as many different parts numbers, you don't need to design different parts, have better supplier relations, and the customer can find a car on dealer lot someone wants and don't end up with weird build combinations. This complexity is why Ford wouldn't be as profitable per unit as a CR-V/Rogue/Rav 4 or CX-5. Take the Escape there are Power mirror, Power Mirror color cap Power Mirror color cap, BLIS Power mirror with heat and color cap Power mirror with heat and BLIS and color cap Power mirror with heat, turn signal, memory, color cap (Puddle light was eliminated in 2018) Power mirror with heat, turn signal, memory, BLIS, color cap (Puddle light was eliminated in 2018) That is 7 different mirrors, that is not efficient; on top of that you can add power-folding to some markets. On the Escape SE and above the Sync3, and Ford Safe and Smart package should be standard. leaving the 2 options pkg as as the sport appearance package and tow package and the free standing option is AWD, Navigation. On the SEL Safe and Smart, 18" Wheels and Nav all standard, SEL should be just the AWD, Tow package and moonroof optional. Titanium, Safe and Smart, 19" wheels and Nav all standard, AWD, Tow and Moon roof only options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) I know at MAP the mirrors already come to the line sequenced in the order in they will be installed. I'm pretty sure every plant does it that way, and on top of that there's no difference in how they're installed. Not a very good example. Edited July 24, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) I know at MAP the mirrors already come to the line sequenced in the order in they will be installed. I'm pretty sure every plant does it that way, and on top of that there's no difference in how they're installed. Not a very good example. It is from a cost perspective, the supplier charges Ford individual for that sequence the simpler you make it the cheaper it becomes. All those different mirrors were engineered and had man hours spent on them. Edited July 24, 2017 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 The problem is the packages themselves, not the free standing options. Same thing with Continental. If you want the Ultima audio, you need to get a CD player and different headlights as well. I prefer the standard headlights and wouldn't want to spend nearly $4500 for the whole package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) I read that the end of production for Fiesta B299N at Cuautitlan, Mexico (document dated October 2016) is slated for September 28,2018. I am sure since January 2017, details for future and current product is changing everyday. This is the part that is curious... If Cuautitlan is going to end Fiesta production a full year earlier, what is taking its place? I can't think of anything other than Escape over flow... except Escape is about 18 months from replacement so does it really make sense to tool up a plant to build it for only 1 model year? The original end date makes sense because it will flow right into (early 2019 intro date for) model year 2020 next gen MKC or Escape so Ford can setup a 2nd plant to start production without stopping production on the existing generation. Edited July 24, 2017 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 This is the part that is curious... If Cuautitlan is going to end Fiesta production a full year earlier, what is taking its place? I can't think of anything other than Escape over flow... except Escape is about 18 months from replacement so does it really make sense to tool up a plant to build it for only 1 model year? The original end date makes sense because it will flow right into (early 2019 intro date for) model year 2020 next gen MKC or Escape so Ford can setup a 2nd plant to start production without stopping production on the existing generation. Perhaps some sort of EcoSport replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) This is the part that is curious... If Cuautitlan is going to end Fiesta production a full year earlier, what is taking its place? I can't think of anything other than Escape over flow... except Escape is about 18 months from replacement so does it really make sense to tool up a plant to build it for only 1 model year? The original end date makes sense because it will flow right into (early 2019 intro date for) model year 2020 next gen MKC or Escape so Ford can setup a 2nd plant to start production without stopping production on the existing generation. B299N Ford Fiesta Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 4/26/2010 EOP 9/28/2018 C727 Ford CEV BEV/PHEV Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 9/3/2019 EOP 6/28/2024 C728 Ford CEV HEV Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 9/3/2019 EOP 6/28/2024 C730 Ford HEV Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 12/1/2020 EOP 6/28/2024 CX430 Ford GenY CUV Cuautitlan, SOP Mexico 12/19/2019 EOP 11/28/2025 CX482 Ford Escape Louisville, United States SOP 6/17/2019 EOP 5/30/2025 CX483 Lincoln MKC Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 6/17/2019 EOP 11/17/2025 Edited July 24, 2017 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 What is CEV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 City Electric Vehicle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Wait a minute, didn't Ford just this year say that they were keeping MKC production in Kentucky? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Info is from October 2016, so it most likely has changed, as on this list the MK4 C519 Focus is showing assembly at the San Luis Potosi plant which has most definitely been changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) not sure about the Eco Sport making up for Fiesta sales...HUGE error reminiscent of the Transit Connect....6 months from order initiation to delivery....India???? seriously, which Einsten made THAT decision...and the TC has NOT improved moving from Turkey to Spain....nightmare... Edited July 25, 2017 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) I wonder how a Mexican Fiesta Active Utility would sell in the market as an addition to Ecosport... Edited July 24, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 not sure about the Eco Sport making up for Fiesta sales...HUGE error reminiscent of the Transit Connect....6 months from order initiation to delivery....India???? seriously, which Einsten made THAT decision...and the TC has improved moving from Turkey to Spain....nightmare... Yep....this is either goin be a shit storm for ford or a career maker...goin be interesting to see whose ass rolls or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I wonder how a Mexican Fiesta Active Utility would sell in the market as an addition to Ecosport... It wouldn't because it has the Fiesta name in it. Now if they went and called it the Ebbetts or something like that people would be ohh that's a mountain and a SUV and they'd sell 40k+ of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 B299N Ford Fiesta Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 4/26/2010 EOP 9/28/2018 C727 Ford CEV BEV/PHEV Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 9/3/2019 EOP 6/28/2024 C728 Ford CEV HEV Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 9/3/2019 EOP 6/28/2024 C730 Ford HEV Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 12/1/2020 EOP 6/28/2024 CX430 Ford GenY CUV Cuautitlan, SOP Mexico 12/19/2019 EOP 11/28/2025 CX482 Ford Escape Louisville, United States SOP 6/17/2019 EOP 5/30/2025 CX483 Lincoln MKC Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 6/17/2019 EOP 11/17/2025 I think C727 and C728 are "Model E" and Ford announced they were moving from Mexico to Flat Rock earlier this year. C730 HEV must be the next C-Max and that is probably cancelled. CX430 is probably the "short C" CUV we've been speculating about... something the size of C-Max but actually looks like a SUV and with AWD option. The timing of CX482 Escape and C483 MKC was obviously preliminary but makes sense. Also MKC is now going to stay in Louisville so that means Ford will probably add Escape to Cautitlan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Wait a minute, didn't Ford just this year say that they were keeping MKC production in Kentucky? Maybe just for now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 When we bought our Reserve MKX last year I was shocked that we had to add the driver, technology and climate package to get the features we wanted. And because we did not want to wait 2 months to special order we ended up without the driver's package which I wanted. None of that stuff should have been optional on a Reserve. FWIW, this isn't unique to FoMoCo. It seems like nearly every review from The Road Show has Brian Cooley pointing out how you have to buy this stupid combination of packages to get these particular features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Now if they went and called it the Ebbetts or something like that people would be ohh that's a mountain and a SUV and they'd sell 40k+ of them. Maybe in Brooklyn. Somehow I don't think the Board would go for that, given the word that normally follows it, at least not this soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) I think C727 and C728 are "Model E" and Ford announced they were moving from Mexico to Flat Rock earlier this year. C730 HEV must be the next C-Max and that is probably cancelled. CX430 is probably the "short C" CUV we've been speculating about... something the size of C-Max but actually looks like a SUV and with AWD option. The timing of CX482 Escape and C483 MKC was obviously preliminary but makes sense. Also MKC is now going to stay in Louisville so that means Ford will probably add Escape to Cautitlan. Does Ford really need a second Escape plant when Louisville is able to do this: Louisville production Jun 2017 (YTD) Escape.................34, 692........(192,689) MKC........................5,947..........(29,300) TOTAL..................40,639.........(221,989) Edited July 25, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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