MKX1960 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Regarding CD6, don't expect any "Lincoln coupe". Look at how well the Cadillac coupes are [not] selling. Ford can't build cars for fan boys and vintage car hobbyists to look at and "dream about" but not buy new. They have to build to paying customers. Can't expect a "comeback" of 1960's type 2 doors like Cougar or Mark III. Mustang is barely hanging on by its hoofs. When the MKZ is gone, won't they fill that spot with another model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 That's why I was suggesting a premium large Ford sedan based on CD6 and shared with MKZ/Continental. Something that would sell 3K-4K but at premium prices. They pretty much have that with the Taurus. It just needs a bit of updating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 When the MKZ is gone, won't they fill that spot with another model? MKZ is going away in name only. It'll get a name instead of the three letter designation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 They pretty much have that with the Taurus. It just needs a bit of updating. Not really. There is only so much you can do with a FWD D3 platform. Think 4 door mustang. Premium performance = premium pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 They pretty much have that with the Taurus. It just needs a bit of updating. And fixing the claustrophobia-inducing interior... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 It's a temporary situation, nothing more. They'll have to make infrastructure changes in North America to move it back which probably can't happen until after the FRAP upgrades from a resource/cash flow perspective. I can see how this could be feasible, so I hope you're right. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 "Chinese Taurus" would be here by now if there was a market. Better to sell Continental and not have a Ford version competing with it. Mondeo is a hit in China, too, so that is another reason no "all new" one here as of yet. Who knows how long til a "CD8"* Fusion? *Made up, fake, don't pass on as fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 "Chinese Taurus" would be here by now if there was a market. Better to sell Continental and not have a Ford version competing with it. Mondeo is a hit in China, too, so that is another reason no "all new" one here as of yet. Who knows how long til a "CD8"* Fusion? *Made up, fake, don't pass on as fact. I think the Taurus situation was several factors. A mentioned by Fuzzy a while back, adding CD4 Taurus to FRAP is too much for two shifts but not enough for three. That coupled with indifference over styling direction with Chines Taurus probably meant that "doing nothing" was easier and meant not spending funding that could be used elsewhere..... With NG Focus growing in size, I wonder if NG Fusion grows a little and becomes more like Continental and less like a Mondeo sedan...perhaps a new large car hiding in plain sight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 I think the Taurus situation was several factors. A mentioned by Fuzzy a while back, adding CD4 Taurus to FRAP is too much for two shifts but not enough for three. I find that slightly hard to believe since the Taurus hasn't hit 100K+ sales since 2006. The average sales numbers have been around 70-80K units with the last couple years sales being almost half of that. I don't see the Conti selling in huge numbers the MKS only sold 100K units in 8 years of production. The Mustang varies from 90-140K units a year..not sure how much overseas production is impacting production numbers though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I find that slightly hard to believe since the Taurus hasn't hit 100K+ sales since 2006. The average sales numbers have been around 70-80K units with the last couple years sales being almost half of that. I don't see the Conti selling in huge numbers the MKS only sold 100K units in 8 years of production. The Mustang varies from 90-140K units a year..not sure how much overseas production is impacting production numbers though.. Shocker that the Taurus/MKS numbers have been so low. Wonder if it has anything to due with the fact that there is little marketing effort? At least I never seem to see it. And as for that large car market, what are the total numbers for ALL large cars- Avalon, 300, all of the Korean variants-can't keep them all straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) Total 27,602 down 29% from June 2016. Individual model details http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/07/large-car-sales-in-america-june-2017.html Edited July 10, 2017 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I find that slightly hard to believe since the Taurus hasn't hit 100K+ sales since 2006. The average sales numbers have been around 70-80K units with the last couple years sales being almost half of that. I don't see the Conti selling in huge numbers the MKS only sold 100K units in 8 years of production. The Mustang varies from 90-140K units a year..not sure how much overseas production is impacting production numbers though.. You have to remember this was 2 years ago when Mustang demand was at its peak and Continental was just getting ready to launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 You have to remember this was 2 years ago when Mustang demand was at its peak and Continental was just getting ready to launch. Best case: 100K Taurus/PI 150K Mustang 30K Conti Thats about 280K units a year...with it be closer to 220-250K normally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Makes more sense to switch PIs to Fusion if they're killing the retail Taurus. And that makes it even more imperative to keep Hermosillo capacity for Fusion/MKZ over the next few years. Flex and MKT are built in Oakville alongside Edge and MKX so they're not affected by Explorer/Aviator production at Chicago. They could keep MKT for fleet use and keep Flex unless Edge and MkX sales increase. So that leaves Chicago to make CD6 Explorer/Aviator/PIU with Fusion PI in Hermosillo until the CD6 sedans are ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Best case: 100K Taurus/PI 150K Mustang 30K Conti Thats about 280K units a year...with it be closer to 220-250K normally which is still a poorly utilized third shift, even at a plant like Flat Rock where they run a bit slower because there's too many job elements for them to speed it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Makes more sense to switch PIs to Fusion if they're killing the retail Taurus. And that makes it even more imperative to keep Hermosillo capacity for Fusion/MKZ over the next few years. Flex and MKT are built in Oakville alongside Edge and MKX so they're not affected by Explorer/Aviator production at Chicago. They could keep MKT for fleet use and keep Flex unless Edge and MkX sales increase. So that leaves Chicago to make CD6 Explorer/Aviator/PIU with Fusion PI in Hermosillo until the CD6 sedans are ready. MKT doesn't live without Flex around, so once one goes, both goes. It wouldn't make sense to keep one. MKT will obviously be replaced by Aviator. I wonder if we'll get any sort of direct Flex replacement or if it'll just be absorbed by Explorer/Expedition sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 MKT doesn't live without Flex around, so once one goes, both goes. It wouldn't make sense to keep one. MKT will obviously be replaced by Aviator. I wonder if we'll get any sort of direct Flex replacement or if it'll just be absorbed by Explorer/Expedition sales. Why would they be tied together like that? They have different wheelbases and don't share very much outside the basic platform. MKT uses the same engines as MKX and Edge so keeping it would be easy. The only good reason would be for livery and hearse fleet sales leaving Aviator to focus on retail sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 which is still a poorly utilized third shift, even at a plant like Flat Rock where they run a bit slower because there's too many job elements for them to speed it up. They can't do 250K units with two shifts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Why would they be tied together like that? They have different wheelbases and don't share very much outside the basic platform. MKT uses the same engines as MKX and Edge so keeping it would be easy. The only good reason would be for livery and hearse fleet sales leaving Aviator to focus on retail sales. Flex and MKT share a 117.9" wheelbase. Edge - 2.0EB, 3.5L, 2.7EB MKX - 3.7L, 2.7T (EB) Flex - 3.5L, 3.5EB MKT - 3.7L, 3.5T (EB) MKT shares only its' base powertrain with MKX's base powertrain, and likewise with Flex/Edge, while the Flex and MKX both share the 3.5EB/T. It'd be a lot of resources put into it just to produce a few hundred units a month at best. At least now, combined Flex/MKT are around 2,300-2,500 a month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 They can't do 250K units with two shifts? The plant itself is capable of it, but because there's so many job elements to building the Mustang and Continental (especially the Continental), they can't speed the line up at all. S550 was supposed to be easier to build than S197 but that turned out to be wrong. It's so complicated they have never been able to come close to the same linespeed as the old model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 The plant itself is capable of it, but because there's so many job elements to building the Mustang and Continental (especially the Continental), they can't speed the line up at all. S550 was supposed to be easier to build than S197 but that turned out to be wrong. It's so complicated they have never been able to come close to the same linespeed as the old model. That makes complete sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Thx- so in round numbers 300-400 thou a year? Seems to me that is not an insignificant market. Like I said, IMO they do nothing to market the Taurus. Went to Barrett Jackson last week and the FCA "action drive" tent was packed with Challengers and ugly Chargers blasting around the circuit. Enjoyed my ride in the GT-350 (got in, and asked my driver.."So whats your experience level that I should trust you-he said with a grin..Pizza Hut!)-but the hype was clearly at FCA. And you see the marketing in their ads every day-or so it seems to me. Once again, another self fulfilling prophecy at Ford-no marketing, lousy sales numbers,..."well no justification to continue this program" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Your point is well taken. As someone who had a Taurus for 100k miles, it was a great car for me. It's unfortunate that Ford never pushed this car at all, because it deserved some marketing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Thx- so in round numbers 300-400 thou a year? Seems to me that is not an insignificant market. Like I said, IMO they do nothing to market the Taurus. Went to Barrett Jackson last week and the FCA "action drive" tent was packed with Challengers and ugly Chargers blasting around the circuit. Enjoyed my ride in the GT-350 (got in, and asked my driver.."So whats your experience level that I should trust you-he said with a grin..Pizza Hut!)-but the hype was clearly at FCA. And you see the marketing in their ads every day-or so it seems to me. Once again, another self fulfilling prophecy at Ford-no marketing, lousy sales numbers,..."well no justification to continue this program" Because that's all FCA has to sell. If they didn't market them, they'd be out of business. The reality is Taurus, while still a nice vehicle, is now outdated on top of its existing problems (small interior for a large car, tall for a sedan, etc). There's not much there to advertise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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