rmc523 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/gmcom/investor/2017/jul/Deliveries-June-2017.pdf I continue to wonder when ATS and CTS sales will reach bottom. Did they discontinue Impala and not tell anyone? Its sales were down 77.2% to 2,808. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Did they discontinue the Spark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 Did they discontinue the Spark? Oh wow, I didn't even notice that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Did they discontinue Impala and not tell anyone? Its sales were down 77.2% to 2,808. GM produced its final run of the fleet only Impala Limited last year. Those units were counted in the Impala overall number and made June 2016 Impala sales appear unusually high. New Impala is focused on real retail customers, as part of GM's strategy to dramatically reduce fleet sales. This combined with sales declines for full size sedans generally explains the lower numbers in June 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 GM produced its final run of the fleet only Impala Limited last year. Those units were counted in the Impala overall number and made June 2016 Impala sales appear unusually high. New Impala is focused on real retail customers, as part of GM's strategy to dramatically reduce fleet sales. This combined with sales declines for full size sedans generally explains the lower numbers in June 2017. I didn't realize they weren't selling the new one to fleets. The rental lot would say otherwise. Either way, it shows how they can cut fleet numbers so drastically because they kept them artificially high with fleet models to begin with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 GM produced its final run of the fleet only Impala Limited last year. Those units were counted in the Impala overall number and made June 2016 Impala sales appear unusually high. New Impala is focused on real retail customers, as part of GM's strategy to dramatically reduce fleet sales. This combined with sales declines for full size sedans generally explains the lower numbers in June 2017. Well that's interesting, aside from tbe POS Impala Classics in our fleet, one of which I drive, we have several of the new style Impalas as well. So it does appear they are selling them to fleets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) I didn't realize they weren't selling the new one to fleets. The rental lot would say otherwise. Either way, it shows how they can cut fleet numbers so drastically because they kept them artificially high with fleet models to begin with. Well that's interesting, aside from tbe POS Impala Classics in our fleet, one of which I drive, we have several of the new style Impalas as well. So it does appear they are selling them to fleets. New Impala is offered to both fleets and real retail customers. Its primary audience is the latter though, probably 85% or more of total volume now. When Old Impala was offered to both fleets and retail customers, the proportion in many years exceeded 50% fleet. Last year, Impala Limited (OId Impala) was 100% fleet. tbone, I agree with you sir about Old Impala being a crummy car. I also drove that model in past job duties with the federal government. GSA bought thousands of them every year with huge price concessions until GM discontinued the model. I won't miss it and it looks like GM won't either. New Impala is very rare by comparison in federal government fleets. Edited July 4, 2017 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) the other part of this is the mass exodus of buyers away from cars and into Utilities, GM had a very good month on the Utility front, both it and Ford almost replaced all of their lost car sales ...but not quite. Buick stands out as incredibly strong Envision and Encore sales, Enclave will do better once the new model arrives and kicks in. Silverado and Sierra combined sales trail the hot selling F Series by more than 11,000 sales, I wonder if GM's Full Size Utilities are attracting some truck buyers who are after the 6.2 V8.. Edited July 4, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/gmcom/investor/2017/jul/Deliveries-June-2017.pdf I continue to wonder when ATS and CTS sales will reach bottom. Did they discontinue Impala and not tell anyone? Its sales were down 77.2% to 2,808. ATS/CTS I don't think Caddy is worried too much about them seeing the replacements are a 1 or 2 MYs on the same Alpha platform (sorry no fwd ATS ? ?) . Impala as was explained the fleet models are history and GM holding the line on pricing, a wholesale Omega or Alpha probably will take the Impalas place above Malibu and it's also the rumored rwd sports sedan above Commodore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 ATS/CTS I don't think Caddy is worried too much about them seeing the replacements are a 1 or 2 MYs on the same Alpha platform (sorry no fwd ATS ) . Impala as was explained the fleet models are history and GM holding the line on pricing, a wholesale Omega or Alpha probably will take the Impalas place above Malibu and it's also the rumored rwd sports sedan above Commodore. I dunno, ATS and CTS have not set the wrld on fire and done what GM wanted, the ATS-L has done a lot better in China so perhaps that size would be a better fit in North America- maybe that the plan for next product cycle? Hard to know what GM is planning with large car replacements, the way the market is tanking, it might keep things as they are now.......Trucks and utes are where the money is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I think Caddy would be better off with a single ATS-CTS "tweeter" like the CTS used to be. The CT6 has a presence that is lacking in the other Caddies, and the latest concept (Escala?) looks good. I look forward to seeing the CT6 MCE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Hard to know what GM is planning with large car replacements, the way the market is tanking, it might keep things as they are now.......Trucks and utes are where the money is. The 90's strikes back!!! As was learned, can't put out uncompetitive sedans because "everyone" is buying trucks. From the rumors I heard, the ATS/CTS will continue with new names and (of course) bigger backseats due to longer wheelbases. On the larger car front CT6 will get a coupe soon, Buick is to get a CT6 based flagship coupe/sedan, the Chevy will be an smaller Alpha sedan only due to the Camaro/Vette existence also its doubling as an export (probably a Holden). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) The 90's strikes back!!! As was learned, can't put out uncompetitive sedans because "everyone" is buying trucks. From the rumors I heard, the ATS/CTS will continue with new names and (of course) bigger backseats due to longer wheelbases. On the larger car front CT6 will get a coupe soon, Buick is to get a CT6 based flagship coupe/sedan, the Chevy will be an smaller Alpha sedan only due to the Camaro/Vette existence also its doubling as an export (probably a Holden). and I suspect that's a lot of wishful thinking cooked up before the reality of the current situation. Competitive cars or not, everything in cars is collapsing in on itself and I suspect that ATS and CTS will condense to one vehicle, ATS-L and probably an import form China.but the rest I doubt, save for an Omega Buick for China....large cars are on the nose elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see what you're suggesting, I simply feel that GM will tack away form what it has been doing with cars to a safer position, automakers can't help themselves taking the safer route of doing less but looking to stay in certain segments, how GM does that will be interesting. Edited July 7, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 From "rumors" I heard, Olds, Pontiac, Saturn and SAAB are coming back! People want badge engineering so bad they are screaming. ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 From "rumors" I heard, Olds, Pontiac, Saturn and SAAB are coming back! People want badge engineering so bad they are screaming. ;-) Let's not forget Isuzu! via Imgflip Meme Generator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 GM should combign the CTS/Ats into one model for sedan and turn the ATS into a sporty hatchbacky/cuv-y thing like MKC or BMW X1 type of car that the market loves. Caddy only really needs 2 sedans, and needs at least 3 cuv models to go along with the Escalade SUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) GM should combign the CTS/Ats into one model for sedan and turn the ATS into a sporty hatchbacky/cuv-y thing like MKC or BMW X1 type of car that the market loves. Caddy only really needs 2 sedans, and needs at least 3 cuv models to go along with the Escalade SUV. Yeah my thoughts exactly, ATS-L or just CTS would seem to fit the bill. Why Cadillac decided to split the previous CTS market in two and chase BMW is beyond me. They should have just emulated the Sigma CTS in Alpha and given buyers what they wanted at the prices those buyers expected. Edited July 8, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) It's my understanding that the ATS was originally not supposed to be a Cadillac. It was initially developed as a sporty, premium Pontiac. I'm guessing that Bob Lutz was the impetus behind that project. That plan was derailed by the government bailout /quasi-bankruptcy, which saw GM phase out the Pontiac marque. The car was then "re-cast" as a 3-Series competitor from Cadillac. The car simply doesn't have the qualities one expects from a Cadillac, and the customers have obviously picked up on that. Meanwhile, the Cadillac brand doesn't have the prestige to pry people out of their BMWs. As for any Buick flagship sedan and coupe, it should be apparent that Buick passenger cars are DOA in this country. No one is going to trade in their Lexus for a Buick, no matter what GM wants to believe. Buick does not have the prestige and image to go head-to-head with Lexus. Accept that reality and instead offer premium versions of Chevrolet passenger cars. Edited July 8, 2017 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 It's my understanding that the ATS was originally not supposed to be a Cadillac. It was initially developed as a sporty, premium Pontiac. I'm guessing that Bob Lutz was the impetus behind that project. That plan was derailed by the government bailout /quasi-bankruptcy, which saw GM phase out the Pontiac marque. The car was then "re-cast" as a 3-Series competitor from Cadillac. That's exactly what happened, also it wasn't ment to be RHD or CUV capable which is supposed to be remedied for the 2nd gen Alpha The car simply doesn't have the qualities one expects from a Cadillac, and the customers have obviously picked up on that. Meanwhile, the Cadillac brand doesn't have the prestige to pry people out of their BMWs. So with similar sales that means Jag, AR, Lexus should stop making thier sport compacts too?. Nevermind The ATS is still Caddys bestseller for cars. As for any Buick flagship sedan and coupe, it should be apparent that Buick passenger cars are DOA in this country. No one is going to trade in their Lexus for a Buick, no matter what GM wants to believe. Buick does not have the prestige and image to go head-to-head with Lexus. Accept that reality and instead offer premium versions of Chevrolet passenger cars. Lot of white flags flown here, a "premium Chevy" sedan didn't sell squats last month, the Lacrosse almost eclipse the Impala last month and the new Regal isn't on lots yet. Buick also hadn't had a real flagship since the Lucerne replacement got canned along with the other NA Zeta sedans not because Buick wants a LS460. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) I actually feel for GM, the Alpha platfom's driving dynamics are superb but unfortunately, the car as delivered fall short of what Cadillac and Camaro buyers expect in key areas. One big hint as to what needed is to look over at China an understand why the ATS-L is basically carrying the ship for Alpha, the added legroom in a compact is a unifying constant with luxury buyers, something that GM should take on board.... Edited July 9, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 So with similar sales that means Jag, AR, Lexus should stop making thier sport compacts too?. Nevermind The ATS is still Caddys bestseller for cars. Still? XTS outsells ATS YTD. And how about that hit Cascada!? 711 sales last month! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 ATS and CTS sales in North America are now getting very skinny, I dunno whether a makeover is the solution or whether that merely slows the erosion of sales - it's a tough one that every manufacturer is facing but luxury brands in particular will be running the numbers with those lower sales... GM jumped into a premium car platform right when the tide really began to turn against all cars, the money ha already been spent so probably in the same situation as Lincoln's MKT in that it's probably less costly to keep going, work through this and get what ever sales are there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 ATS and CTS sales in North America are now getting very skinny, I dunno whether a makeover is the solution or whether that merely slows the erosion of sales - it's a tough one that every manufacturer is facing but luxury brands in particular will be running the numbers with those lower sales... Makes you wonder if they'll kill one off. Lincoln's sedans seem to be doing well though, all things considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) Makes you wonder if they'll kill one off. Lincoln's sedans seem to be doing well though, all things considered. Drop the ATS altogether, and drop the CTS price point. Edited July 10, 2017 by tbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 Makes you wonder if they'll kill one off. Lincoln's sedans seem to be doing well though, all things considered. There's some talk that they'll go back to a tweener product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.