Very Bad Germans

[akirby]

And how does Hyundai-Kia manage to load up inexpensive cars with modern features? Because they pay no US Corporate tax, and the Korean government gives them incentives to go out and grab as much US market share as they can - all at the expense of US Automakers- and in the long run, the expense of all Americans.

 

This is why burdening American businesses with high taxes is self-destructing. Business don't pay taxes - they pass them on to consumers anyway. Let the businesses compete and let individuals pay the taxes.

[grbeck]

We also get more fuel-efficient, more reliable vehicles that last longer. That saves people money in the long run.

What's the alternative?

"Tolerate a crappy, expensive vehicle that starts to fall apart at 80,000 miles so that no one in the auto industry loses his or her job?"

 

People have rejected that approach. It's time to accept it and move on.

 

It's also an approach that doesn't create wealth. It merely shifts more of it from one group (buyers) to another.

 

That's like someone in 1910 saying that no one should buy a car from Henry Ford or Ransom E. Olds, because it's going to make blacksmiths and people who make buggies poorer.

[jpd80]

Take the example of Australia, within one generation our auto industry was obliterated by the government

removing import tariffs and ending funding support for local development and manufacture of vehicles.

 

The objective was to free up the market and provide lower cost (cheaper cars) to Australians compared

to the price marks set by Holden and Ford. An example of that pricing pressureby the near flat or low

increase retail pricing of cars over the last 15-20 years. No wonder why Ford and GM wanted to pull out.

In 1995, I was quoted $36K for an XR6 falcon, 20 years later the price was barely $4K more.

Edited May 30, 2017 by jpd80

[akirby]

Let's not ignore the significance of the manufacturing and sales/service and other jobs that the Japanese, Germans and Koreans have created in the US. Those are very real well paying jobs for Americans regardless of the situation with the company and their headquarters. I think most of the objections are coming from the UAW who only care about UAW jobs.

[jasonj80]

No wonder why Ford and GM wanted to pull out.

In 1995, I was quoted $36K for an XR6 falcon, 20 years later the price was barely $4K more.

In that time the Australian dollar strength almost doubled vs the USD. Australia changed their monetary policy as well which allowed that to happen.

[Kev-Mo]

 

This is why burdening American businesses with high taxes is self-destructing. Business don't pay taxes - they pass them on to consumers anyway. Let the businesses compete and let individuals pay the taxes.

 

Post # 10 - apparently short memory here...

 

Lowering the corporate tax rate would accomplish the same thing - give the home team some flexibility to compete against whatever corporate deals the foreign manufacturers are getting from their governments for the purpose of getting a competitive advantage in the world's largest consumer market.

 

And in addition: The notion of taxing productivity- corporate or individual- is backwards and archaic. A method that dates back to Cesar for the purpose of controlling the masses. Our (much smarter) founders were in favor of taxing imports, but also for a small government that didn't leach off others (oh! if only both of those things could be true!). If we need to tax the hell out of ourselves, then tax consumption - that way all the imported stuff we buy at Costco and WalMart will bear equal burden of the taxes! Taxing consumption would distribute the burden across all products in the marketplace, not just drain the productivity of hard working Americans trying to compete.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Kev-Mo

[Kev-Mo]

We also get more fuel-efficient, more reliable vehicles that last longer. That saves people money in the long run.

 

 

The free market notion of "...who cares, we just get better cars..." is self destructing, and our anemic economy that relies on massive consumer debt to fuel consumption is proof.

 

We as a nation - should do everything possible to support and be sure that our industries have all the tools they need and the freedom from over-regulation to make the best products in the world.

 

Why just cars? From your notion - whatever you do for a living - the Japanese, Germans, and Koreans must do it better.

 

just a note:

I thought it was interesting how you debated with me (after my post #10) - then 'liked' Kirby's nearly identical statement (post # 26) ...just sayin'.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Kev-Mo

[MY93SHO]

Problem is, the Dems and GOP (and their predecessor parties) have had centuries to figure it out and do the right thing.

 

And they haven't.

 

Is it any wonder so many have voted for someone not a part of that establishment? Maybe DT can deliver. Maybe he can't. Maybe he's competent. Maybe he's not.

 

But he's not a career Washington parasite. I think thats what many voted for.

No, he's just a regular parasite. Look at the history he has with people. He screws over whoever he can. Banks, piano salesmen, doesn't matter to him.

 

I guess if you haven't spent a lot of time around a narcissist you can't spot them. I was raised by one and I can smell Donnie a mile away.

Edited May 31, 2017 by MY93SHO

[akirby]

As opposed to career politicians who screw over entire states and nations.

[grbeck]

Kev-Mo, I'm not disputing your view on corporate taxes.

 

And, no, I never said that the Germans, Japanese or South Koreans do EVERYTHING better than the Americans, or even the American automobile industry.

 

Americans still make the best large pickups, and the Corvette and Mustang are unequalled in offering top performance for the price. And no is buying a VW for reliability (one hopes).

 

But I've driven Hondas for years...the Honda passenger cars are excellent vehicles that are at or near the tops of their respective classes. Toyotas offer great reliability and are very well designed for their purpose. My wife and I are buying what we like, and we like both Fords and Hondas.

 

We should welcome foreign manufacturers who want to build their products here (which isn't any different than what Ford has been doing in Europe and South America for decades). They employ Americans and generate revenue for the local community. And their profits go to shareholders (who live all over the world, not just in their home countries) and are invested in new plants and products - many of which are made right here. The North American market, for example, is more important to Toyota and Honda than the Japanese market is.

 

What you really want is a return to 1965, when the Big Three and AMC had about 95 percent of the American new-car market. That will not happen, no matter who is president, or which party controls Congress. It's time to accept it, and move on.

Edited May 31, 2017 by grbeck

[mettech]

The Germany to USA deficiencies for 2016 was $64.8 Billion. It is already >$14 billion this year.

 

Germany only spends 1.2% on military.

 

It appears to me USA should look at the trade deal.

[Kev-Mo]

The Germany to USA deficiencies for 2016 was $64.8 Billion. It is already >$14 billion this year.

 

Germany only spends 1.2% on military.

 

It appears to me USA should look at the trade deal.

If I interpret this post correctly, I agree we are at the short end of the stick.

 

POTUS has brought to light the absurdity of the USA footing the bill for the defense of well developed first world countries as we have done now for decades.

Time to let them spend their own money to defend themselves in a dangerous world.

 

"Deficits don't matter" is false. The trade deficit is a significant drain on GDP: C+I+G + (X-M)

(X-M) is year after year a huge negative -draining our potential for growth.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Kev-Mo

[jpd80]

I would argue that NATO would be less important if those countries now independent of Russia had stayed neutral

and not been signed up to NATO, they could have become bridges between East and West without Russia feeling

like its borders have shrunk.I think that a big opportunity was missed years ago, the self-interest of NATO prevailed.

 

Of course the other side of Trump's statement in European countries paying their fair share of defense is

of course self serving when the US integration required sales of US based military and communications

to those European countries...

 

In the past, this has been a nice little way to spread the cost of defence by setting up defense contracts with

foreign aligned countries,the US gets an expanded sphere of influence without having to payfor all of it.

 

On deficits, some countries strive to be total exporters with limited imports, those trade balances are gong

to happen with places like China, Japan and Korea, especially when the community desires cheaper goods

like Wallmart and imported cars, electrical goods, phones, computers, TVs ect...'

'

And yes, you are exporting jobs and GDP to elsewhere else that benefits form that money flowing

out of the country.

Edited June 1, 2017 by jpd80