GM to Exit South Africa & India

[jasonj80]

GM and Ford seem to be taking very different routes. Also interesting that Ford is now the only truly global American Automotive Company.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/2017/05/18/gm-india-south-africa/329280001/

[bzcat]

India is no surprise since Chevy hasn't got traction there.

 

South Africa is a direct result of what happens after you cull Opel... you lose the economy of scale to operate a stand along Chevy operation.

[7Mary3]

And Opel was loosing money even including S.A. sales......

[jpd80]

The other shoe that's still to drop is Holden in Australia, ending production in October and nothing to stop GM on a roll..

 

This is "One GM" in action..

Edited May 19, 2017 by jpd80

[7Mary3]

Sadly, the verdict on Australian auto manufacturing is unanimous.

[630land]

GM fans are going into mass hysteria, they want GM to be #1 and "all things" with 50 zillion badge job brands, profits be darned! They think GM is a "public company" that is meant to build cars, and stock pile them to "look at" and should be bailed out whenever, "because!"

 

[just being extremely sarcastic]

 

Point is, I think GM is doing bold moves to make money and stay alive without bailouts. No more "all things to all" and "fan boyism".

Edited May 19, 2017 by 630land

[mackinaw]

Point is, I think GM is doing bold moves to make money and stay alive without bailouts. No more "all things to all" and "fan boyism".

 

You can also argue that they’re short-sighted and not thinking long term. Selling Opel and exiting Europe (a market equal in size to the U.S.) is a head scratcher. Knowing a few GM engineers, they question why GM management didn’t have the cojones to do what Ford did, bite the bullet and restructure. You wonder if GM’s relentless quest to boost their stock price by exiting markets will hurt them over time.

 

[jpd80]

Sadly, the verdict on Australian auto manufacturing is unanimous.

Without local manufacturing, ther's no need to continue the Holden brand,

it's simply papering over the cracks of imported GM products that could easily be called Chevrolet or perhaps GMC

[7Mary3]

I think GM's sale of Opel signifies an unwillingness to compete in mature markets against heavily subsidized competitors at a loss. I suspect Ford will eventually find themselves in the same situation, though it may not be for a number of years yet.

 

As for Australia, what is the difference between an imported GM product with a Holden badge and an imported Ford with a Ford badge? Or an imported Toyota for that matter? Nothing really, though I wonder what, if any, brand equity the 'Holden' name still carries.

[RichardJensen]

I think GM's sale of Opel signifies an unwillingness to compete in mature markets against heavily subsidized competitors at a loss. I suspect Ford will eventually find themselves in the same situation

 

Ford has been profitable in Europe. GM has not. I doubt that GM's situation parallels a future circumstance for Ford

[twintornados]

I think GM's sale of Opel signifies an unwillingness to compete in mature markets against heavily subsidized competitors at a loss. I suspect Ford will eventually find themselves in the same situation, though it may not be for a number of years yet.

 

As for Australia, what is the difference between an imported GM product with a Holden badge and an imported Ford with a Ford badge? Or an imported Toyota for that matter? Nothing really, though I wonder what, if any, brand equity the 'Holden' name still carries.

.

That is all it will have, "brand equity". Might just as well "can it" altogether and bring in an existing nameplate.

[rperez817]

Point is, I think GM is doing bold moves to make money and stay alive without bailouts. No more "all things to all" and "fan boyism".

 

Yes sir. Daniel Howes mentioned this in his editorial. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/columnists/daniel-howes/2017/05/18/howes-global-pullback-gm-moves/101859932/

 

 

"This is a race, and right now GM is outpacing Ford. Barra’s decisiveness is drawing a distinct contrast to Ford’s apparent indecision. Ford’s move to offer 1,400 salaried buyouts in North America and Asia evinces a more cautious response to investors demanding to see a clearer path to sustained growth.

GM’s electric Chevrolet Bolt is in showrooms; Ford’s answer is not expected to debut until 2020. GM is exiting such marginally profitable markets as India; Ford continues to study its presence there, where the Blue Oval’s global “One Ford” products have been deemed wrong for a market that mostly cannot afford them.

Neither GM nor Ford have summoned the courage to mimic Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV and exit small cars in the United States. But Ford is giving the segment a hard look, despite back pressure from internal constituencies and dealers, in an increasingly urgent bid to answer two questions: where to play, and how to win?

The upshot: America’s two largest mass-market automakers are fast approaching the point where they will cease being all things to all people, chiefly because the slim returns don’t justify the outsized expense. And, second, because looming autonomy, mobility and electrification plays represent more competition for finite resources, not less"

 

.

[jpd80]

GM is cutting and running from Europe and most of its RHD global markets, I'm betting that they are looking hard at South America.

Who can blame them, the bulk of GM's profits come from North America and China.

 

Conversely, Ford Europe has made a spectacular turnaround by transforming products it sells there,

offering high series Titanium, Vignale and ST models has reaped big benefits as well as growing

demand for Utility and strong commercial vehicle customer base....

 

all areas where Opel Vauxhall failed to gain traction and by extension, ROW markets.

and the difference is that Ford squeezing more profit by offering more premium products,

controlling costs, not closing whole divisions.

Edited May 20, 2017 by jpd80

[jpd80]

As for Australia, what is the difference between an imported GM product with a Holden badge and an imported Ford with a Ford badge?

The big difference is Ranger, heads and shoulders above anything Holden has.

 

The point being that while not Made in Australia, it was designed by the mostly

Aussie team at Ford Asia pacific based in Melbourne.

 

FYI, Chinese Taurus was also developed by FAP in Melbourne and is the spiritual

successor to the Falcon, it and the Escort would be more than welcome in our market.

Edited May 20, 2017 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

 

Yes sir. Daniel Howes mentioned this in his editorial. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/columnists/daniel-howes/2017/05/18/howes-global-pullback-gm-moves/101859932/

 

"This is a race, and right now GM is outpacing Ford. Barra’s decisiveness is drawing a distinct contrast to Ford’s apparent indecision.

 

.

 

Hah. When GM abruptly exits markets that it has been in for almost a hundred years, it's "being decisive".

 

When Ford refuses to go toe-to-toe with GM in production, incentives, and credit risk, they're "not competitive."

 

Face it. Ford figured out how to turn a profit in post-Cold War Europe. GM never did.

 

Ford figured out how to build their brand in China AND India. GM couldn't manage both, and it's an open question how well they would've done in China if Buick hadn't accidentally been popular before they showed up.

 

And any editorial that suggests that both Ford and GM should take a lesson from FCA is just ridiculous.

[twintornados]

 

Yes sir. Daniel Howes mentioned this in his editorial. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/columnists/daniel-howes/2017/05/18/howes-global-pullback-gm-moves/101859932/ .

.

Edited May 20, 2017 by twintornados

[jpd80]

It's quite amazing that GM finally surrendering europe and making production cuts at home and around the globe

is construed by some as GM being pro-active. It's not, it's GM cutting and running because the red ink is messing

up their books. The situation in Nth America is different, strong truck and Utility sales tend to mask the mop up of

excess car volumes swept under the rug with strong cash incentives and leasing that kicks the can down the road.

 

Compared to that, Ford is ahead of the curve and raising the presence of Ford brand in Europe and world wide.

Control is the word for Ford's strategy in North America, less production, less sales, less incentives all adds up to

good returns with doing around 30 % less production than GM.

 

Sure, Ford's profits are not as big as GM's but neither is its production footprint, Ford won't need to cut shifts and

4,000 workers like GM. That's an example of managing a company and not just managing a problem after the fact.

 

 

"This is a race, and right now GM is outpacing Ford. Barra’s decisiveness is drawing a distinct contrast to Ford’s apparent indecision. Ford’s move to offer 1,400 salaried buyouts in North America and Asia evinces a more cautious response to investors demanding to see a clearer path to sustained growth.

Stockholders have very little if any influence on Ford's operational decisions, that comes

from Ford's own people, the board and perhaps the Ford family as represented by Bill Ford.

 

I think the statement by Mr. Howes is a fallacy, drawing comparisonse between two unrelated actions

by GM and Ford..

 

Where was GM's leadership in Europe post BK?

Why has it taken so long to admit that Europe wasn't worth keeping?

 

How is it that in the same market Ford can out point, out profit GM in Europe?

Edited May 20, 2017 by jpd80

[bzcat]

The big difference is Ranger, heads and shoulders above anything Holden has.

 

The point being that while not Made in Australia, it was designed by the mostly

Aussie team at Ford Asia pacific based in Melbourne.

 

FYI, Chinese Taurus was also developed by FAP in Melbourne and is the spiritual

successor to the Falcon, it and the Escort would be more than welcome in our market.

 

I'm just thinking out loud here... but I would add Escort production in Thailand and cut back Focus there. Sell the car in Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand, the three remaining markets where Ford is still somewhat relevant as the new Laser.

[630land]

"GM needs Opel! "

 

It's just Opel fans are mad that GM wont be importing them long term. Want to see rebadges at the Auto Show, to satisfy their personal taste, even if lose money and don't sell all that well.

Edited May 22, 2017 by 630land

[jpd80]

 

I'm just thinking out loud here... but I would add Escort production in Thailand and cut back Focus there. Sell the car in Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand, the three remaining markets where Ford is still somewhat relevant as the new Laser.

I get what you're saying but I don't think that the Escort was developed for RHD and if so, it's still

a firmly BRIC design with a lot of shortcomings for places like Australia/NZ, the car it would compete

with over at Hyundai and Kia have become so much better product, it's probably a risk they wouldn't

take as regions like AUS would have to pay for all the needed changes anyway while Focus is here

and now..

 

 

FoA has done a really good job of raising ATPs on Focus by eliminating the base Ambiente (S) version and starting with Trend (SE),

I would hope that they carry that through to a larger Focus in the next year or so, I think the Aussie market is ready for many folks

to graduate from large compacts to small mid sized car with that extra rear leg room.

[jasonj80]

You do have to wonder how much longer GM will be in Australia, it has exited SA, India, Europe. Are they really going to RHD engineer vehicles for 8% market share at 94000 sales. no Opel products anymore, no RWD sedans. Will probably make the announcement after they close plant as not to hurt short term demand.

[630land]

Someone on another forum was whining about the loss of GM's "interesting European products". [Opels]

 

BFD. "What's it to you?" I want to ask. Really planning to buy one? Or just like the "idea" for EU car snobbery? Watched a lot of "Top Gear" online and thinks Opels "must be special"?

Edited May 24, 2017 by 630land