630land Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Why expect more style changes? These days, its adding features and tech that matters more in "refreshes". Toyota was talking of doing away with "MCE's". Mainly so what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) Why expect more style changes? These days, its adding features and tech that matters more in "refreshes". Toyota was talking of doing away with "MCE's". Mainly so what? Then why go through the trouble and expense of changing every part only to look the same? That is the question. Edited April 14, 2017 by Anthony 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Perhaps you can answer why Ford went through the trouble of redesigning the entire front fascia all while retaining the same look. ...and why they did the same thing with the Fusion? ...and why they did the same thing with the CMax? You are missing out on the entire point behind the topic....all the changes they made resulted in it looking basically the same. It isn't a matter of changing for changes sake, they actually spent money on these fascia redesigns for what amounts to a minor trim change. We are trying to figure out why. The simple answer is that the job of these final MCE models is both a get through and also a styling transition to the next product cycle without giving too much away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StangBang Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 I used to be so good at identifying MCEs since I was a kid but not anymore. I can see all of this generation Explorers all together and not even know which one came first. Different is not always fresh. It's like the old days when all that might get changed is a grille pattern. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) The simple answer is that the job of these final MCE models is both a get through and also a styling transition to the next product cycle without giving too much away. If these MCEs are indicators of the next Explorer, Focus and Fusion, that's an even worse prospect. Edited April 15, 2017 by Anthony 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 If these MCEs are indicators of the next Explorer, Focus and Fusion, that's an even worse prospect. Did you not see the Fiesta? More evolutionary than revolutionary.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Did you not see the Fiesta? More evolutionary than revolutionary.... Pretty sure they said that was the last of the current design style of Fords, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Pretty sure they said that was the last of the current design style of Fords, right? I don't remember anything like that. Focus mules have been seen in Europe and from what you can tell through the camouflage and patchwork body panels it looks like it more evolutionary too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 This is a good read. From January, 2015, an interview with Moray Callum, Ford's design chief. http://www.autonews.com/article/20150105/OEM02/301059946/moray-callum-draws-lines-between-ford-lincoln 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 I'm not a fan constant MCE visual changes... Just keep everything the same for 5 years, and you make it so much easier for the part suppliers and buyers to replace stuff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 I'm not a fan constant MCE visual changes... Just keep everything the same for 5 years, and you make it so much easier for the part suppliers and buyers to replace stuff Yes but you run the risk of losing repeat sales for folks on 3 year leases who may want something a little different than what they just turned in. That's the dilemma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Honestly it's not that big of a deal to change front and rear faciais. The mounting points stay the same and there's usually only one supplier involved in the bumper cover (except for Mustang which is done in house). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Yes but you run the risk of losing repeat sales for folks on 3 year leases who may want something a little different than what they just turned in. That's the dilemma. how different does it need to be though? Seems like part of the reason they didn't go further with the Fusion was because of the success it had with its looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Like I said I think the current design looks fine. But if you want maximum sales you need enough difference to get repeat buyers. I don't know exactly where to draw the line and quite frankly I think Ford is actually looking to cut Fusion and focus sales a bit to help with plant consolidation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I think Ford is actually looking to cut Fusion and focus sales a bit to help with plant consolidation. I think the primary driving factor is market leaning towards utilities vs sedans. Given the fact that the mid-sized car has been the best selling product in North America for the past 25-30 years or so and has been eclipsed by the small CUV as of late is very telling. But at the same time, even with Plant consolidation, where does Ford find headroom to build more Escapes or Edges? Seems like the Escape is maxed out and combining the Fusion and Focus would limit options there. The Model E is moving to Flat Rock, but appears to be limited in production till we see what Ford is exactly planning on doing/expanding there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailhiker Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I wonder if Ford could replace the Focus and Fusion with a single model. The coupe and hatch could be slightly smaller than the current Fusion, and the sedan could be a little larger on a longer wheelbase. The Fiesta would then have room to grow a few inches. That is really all Ford needs for cars. I am hoping the Model-E is more CUV/hatchback than sedan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I wonder if Ford could replace the Focus and Fusion with a single model. The coupe and hatch could be slightly smaller than the current Fusion, and the sedan could be a little larger on a longer wheelbase. The Fiesta would then have room to grow a few inches. That is really all Ford needs for cars. I am hoping the Model-E is more CUV/hatchback than sedan. I think it's too big of a size gap to try to replace both with one model. Ford has already said the Model E (well, not in name, they've just said electric crossover) will be a crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) just-imho, it's more helpful to think of the new lineup by which architecture they will use. Seems most U.S vehicles shy of the F-150 will supposedly be some sort of cD6**; so dealing them out to factories could be very diff (Chicago & Oakville are 2 of my main issues > both becoming All cD6). ** afaik no official word on what things like EcoSport & ModelE will use & dunno if Mustang could be as separate as the Ranger/Bronco might be Edited April 20, 2017 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) And more evidence recently on the transformation of production away from sedans to Utilities. Last month at Chicago AP, Ford built 30,038 "Explorer" and 5,508 "Taurus". Not bad for a platform that's supposed to be on the skids......... Kentucky Truck AP is on fire Super Duty....31,430 Expedition.......7,180 Navigator..... ...1.288 Total...............39,898 Also F150: Dearborn........35,092 KCAP..............31,998 Det Chassis......2,228 And also Louisville Escape.......34,251 MKC.............5,870 Total............40,121 Keep in mind that these production levels are for March, so Ford must be expecting strong sales in trucks and utilities to continue or increase going into summer.. Hermosillo was fairly strong Fusion....30,927 MKZ.........4,752 Total.......35,679 While Michigan AP is a little subdued Focus....14,832 C-Max.....1,543 Total......16,375 Edited April 20, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Seems most U.S vehicles shy of the F-150 will supposedly be some sort of cD6**; so dealing them out to factories could be very diff (Chicago & Oakville are 2 of my main issues > both becoming All cD6). No regular poster on any of these message boards knows anything about CD6 or Ford's plans for the next generation Explorer, Edge, Fusion, Mustang, and their Lincoln counterparts. No one even knows whether the next generation Fiesta will be sold in North America or even very much about the Focus that will debut next year. I am sure some Ford employees who know may lurk here, but they won't post and risk their jobs. So I don't know what issue anyone has about the Chicago and Oakville plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 No regular poster on any of these message boards knows anything about CD6 or Ford's plans for the next generation Explorer, Edge, Fusion, Mustang, and their Lincoln counterparts. No one even knows whether the next generation Fiesta will be sold in North America or even very much about the Focus that will debut next year. I am sure some Ford employees who know may lurk here, but they won't post and risk their jobs. So I don't know what issue anyone has about the Chicago and Oakville plants. For better or worse I've posted pretty much everything I know and what I haven't it's either because it's too vague to be noteworthy, or I feel it's too sensitive because of its source, and usually in that case is when I get cryptic or vague myself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) Like for example, the Bronco is going to be [REDACTED] with [REDACTED], [REDACTED], 4x4 and definitely going to compete with Wrangler Oh yeah, the goal is to be able to navigate [REDACTED] with [REDACTED] which the current Aussie Ranger is able to do, minus the [REDACTED] part. Edited April 21, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) No regular poster on any of these message boards knows anything about CD6 or Ford's plans for the next generation Explorer, Edge, Fusion, Mustang, and their Lincoln counterparts. No one even knows whether the next generation Fiesta will be sold in North America or even very much about the Focus that will debut next year. I am sure some Ford employees who know may lurk here, but they won't post and risk their jobs. So I don't know what issue anyone has about the Chicago and Oakville plants. We were informed about nine months ago by an insider that full financial review was being carried out on all product cycles going forward and that projects like CD6 (NG Explorer) had been delayed indefinitely and that most platforms would continue with evolution or variations on existing platforms. Most of that seems to be confirmed from what is coming through in Spy shots and the cancellation of San Louis Potosi. and since Cuautitlan is continuing production, it's logical that Fiesta is continuing, the truth is out there but most times it not in a direct quote that exposes the source... Since Focus is going into hermosillo with Fusion, it's possible that Ford will end production of MAP Fusion inside 12 months and start building the new ones in Mexico down shared facilities much like Valencia. Edited April 21, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I don't know how many times I need to say it. Focus production at MAP is ending in May 2018. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 No one even knows whether the next generation Fiesta will be sold in North America or even very much about the Focus that will debut next year. That would make no sense since the Fiesta is sold in South America along with the Focus. It would be foolish to pull out of a segment if its development $ is getting covered by other regions like the EU/UK. Isn't that the point of One Ford? it would be extremely foolish to stop improving a product just because the sales numbers are down for the time being. If the Ecosport is that big of a success (which is an unknown right now), maybe you can, but that won't be known for at least 3 years from now. Its far easier to Ford to continue on in the short term (3-5 years) with its current line up and replacements since its been already planned out and paid for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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