silvrsvt Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Yeah ADM's suck, but after the first year or two, they go away for the most part...and the GTO NEVER sold..and magazine buzz doesn't sell cars. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a33162/when-dealers-attack/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 saw this...was interesting reading anti dealer responses and the usual mellenial "why cant it be like Amazon"...and yep Tesla got mention numerous times....LMAO....FWIW the RS is avail at MSRP, and has been for some time, and the real number( at least here ) is a tad over MSRP on GT350's....not the R model of course. Raptors once again rule the roost, real #s on them are 10k over, but I have heard of the odd MSRP deal out of California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) 2004 GTO had all kinds of detractors too, versus Mustangs that sell OK. 1 ."It doesn't look like the old GTO's" 2. "It looks like a Cavalier, etc" 3. "Doesn't cost the same as 1970" 4. "Chevy motor" 5. "Import." Somehow, GTO is "holier than other cars", and can't be "modernized", while there are new Pony Cars, etc. Pontiac built a name for itself, but then fanatics forget they were part of GM. Edited April 7, 2017 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 GT350 has been on sales for well over a year now with no anecdotal of massive dealer mark ups... I wonder if this guy actually did any research outsde of his opinion on pricing., desirable / exclusive models come with premium pricing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Jack Baruth makes it sounds as if there's never been any Ford performance cars until now. Seems like click bait for car guys to read and go "car business sucks" and complain about why they cant buy "cheap fast cars", etc,etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 And if the dealers were limited to MSRP you'd have scalpers buying them and immediately reselling them for $10K over. The market is the market. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 And if the dealers were limited to MSRP you'd have scalpers buying them and immediately reselling them for $10K over. The market is the market. . Bingo!! Welcome to the "free market". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Raptors going to china was a CLASSIC....exporters were making BANK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) Raptors going to china was a CLASSIC....exporters were making BANK... You want to talk about mark up? try pre RHD Mustang Converted they were around AUS $100K -$130K Now we can go into a dealership and only pay AUS $65K for a car with factory warranty Edited April 7, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) WOWZERS....I would guess NZ is the same.....heres some Irony, once Ford found out haw many Raptors were going over-seas...and 2.3 ecoboost Mustangs, they clamped down and had watchdogs at the ports. Anyone that was caught had their allocations severely cut back...then I recall seeing a video showing Raptors being exported to China...DIRECTLY FROM FORD..... Edited April 7, 2017 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Seems simple to me. Once the idiots with more money than brains satisfy their appetite and the show room traffic falls off, the greedy dealer pool will back off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) WOWZERS....I would guess NZ is the same.....heres some Irony, once Ford found out haw many Raptors were going over-seas...and 2.3 ecoboost Mustangs, they clamped down and had watchdogs at the ports. Anyone that was caught had their allocations severely cut back...then I recall seeing a video showing Raptors being exported to China...DIRECTLY FROM FORD..... I remember that. Also, wasn't their a fleet buyer nabbed by Ford for buying Transits under fleet discount and then reselling them in China against conditions set down in the sale? With Mustang, now thatit's sold in Australia, that prevents companies importing the current GT350 and converting to RHD. So no only won't Ford deliver a RHD GT350, they are activly stopping importers converting and selling them. I'm pretty sure that Ford could ask close to AUS$80K (USD$60K) for a GT350 but maybe there's not enough meat on the bone. Ford Aus has just canned plans for dealer fit Roush S/C Kit as it exceeds drive by noise limits set down in Australian standards. Edited April 7, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) @Bob....easy Bob.....talking to a dealer employee here....lol...I don't condone addendums but I fully understand them. In sincerity if Ford priced them with the amount fully due to Limited Production there wouldn't be half of the problem....and based on supply I truly dobt the market on Raptors is anywhere close to dying down. As I stated, RS Focii are now at MSRP and GT350s are close. Also, there probably wouldn't be addendums if everyone just paid MSRP..... Edited April 7, 2017 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Somehow, GTO is "holier than other cars", and can't be "modernized", while there are new Pony Cars, etc. Pontiac built a name for itself, but then fanatics forget they were part of GM. That's part of it, but GM also badly bungled the styling on the GTO. It was worse than ugly--it was bland. I'm no fan of the Pontiac, but the one thing they had in their performance cars was decent styling, and that's one thing the new Goat didn't have. It was like they took a lump of styling clay and thought it was enough to jam an engine into it. It probably didn't help that most of the old farts who'd been forced to sell their original Goats to buy family cars had already gone out and bought old Goats to replace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) Buyer perception pays a big part in this, those seeking an exclusive fall into two basic brackets, those that just want one as a keeper and prepared to pay over dealer price and those who are prepared to seek out a dealer who'll play nice and give them the sale. I can understand over MSRP pricing but I think Ford should monitor to prevent excessive gouging of their customers, maybe part of code of conduct That's part of it, but GM also badly bungled the styling on the GTO. It was worse than ugly--it was bland. I'm no fan of the Pontiac, but the one thing they had in their performance cars was decent styling, and that's one thing the new Goat didn't have. It was like they took a lump of styling clay and thought it was enough to jam an engine into it. It probably didn't help that most of the old farts who'd been forced to sell their original Goats to buy family cars had already gone out and bought old Goats to replace them. The GTO was actually a Holden Monaro with a Pontiac grille, that car was developed off the Commodore as a project in their spare time - approximately $67 million and was only intended as a way of adding volume to Holden local RHD sales of the coupe. It also shows why you shouldn't develop a coupe off a sedan platform and then pass it off as something it's not. Much the same way that a Falcon or Thunderbird coupe is not a Mustang..... My own personal experience has been that many GM fans were offended that the GTO name was applied to that car - it's not a muscle cars and doesn't do the legacy justice. Edited April 7, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) Guys, Ford recently announced that it was going away form national based incentives and programs to regional specific that targets buyers and vehicles in certain areas but maybe not others.. Perhaps this is what deanh and the Cali dealers need to move products along out there without causing ripples in other locations... Edited April 7, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 2004 GTO had all kinds of detractors too, versus Mustangs that sell OK. 1 ."It doesn't look like the old GTO's" 2. "It looks like a Cavalier, etc" You got it. As somebody who was around in 1964 when the first GTO hit the streets, this new one was nothing but a disappointment. I had a ride in one once and it was actually a pretty good car. But the boring styling, without a shred of character, did it in. That, and the fact that the Pontiac guys really didn't know how to sell or market the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 @Bob....easy Bob.....talking to a dealer employee here....lol...I don't condone addendums but I fully understand them. In sincerity if Ford priced them with the amount fully due to Limited Production there wouldn't be half of the problem....and based on supply I truly dobt the market on Raptors is anywhere close to dying down. As I stated, RS Focii are now at MSRP and GT350s are close. Also, there probably wouldn't be addendums if everyone just paid MSRP..... Dean- Not trying to slam anyone-just my thought that as always, there are those that "have to be first"-usually because they can-knowing full well that eventually the law of supply/demand will take over. Now as for "greedy dealers"? I have to believe there are those that will push for all they can-just as history has shown when storms were forecast-evacuation orders issued, some service stations posted outrageous prices-unfortunate fact of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 For every 100 dealers who are willing to deal and be fair to customers there's 1 who is greedy AF and consistently rips off/gouges customers on a regular basis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 The GTO was actually a Holden Monaro with a Pontiac grille, Yup, I'm aware of that. Doesn't give them a pass on the bungled styling, though. Stuffing a hot rod engine in a crap car is a Chebbie thing; Pontiac fans expected more. It also shows why you shouldn't develop a coupe off a sedan platform and then pass it off as something it's not. Much the same way that a Falcon or Thunderbird coupe is not a Mustang..... Well, except for the fact that the original Mustang was basically a reskinned Falcon, and it set the new model sales record... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Pretty fairly written from my perspective..but i drive an ih scout and think the fiesta is not worth anywhere near msrp so i dont really count..but yea i will be gettin a new grocery getter..ill do the leg work and find a dealer who knows fair value of a fiesta or foci...damn things are grocery getters an nutin more..hell we aint talking 70 boss 302's here or scouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 The curious case of the GTO have nothing to do with Ford's offerings. The last Aussie Ford that was offered was Capri The GTO gradually improved over the years with styling and engines. IIRC the GTO was to be offered again after the G8 sport truck and wagon was introduced in 10' along with Monaro and Zeta Camaro but of course Pontiac died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Pretty fairly written from my perspective..but i drive an ih scout and think the fiesta is not worth anywhere near msrp so i dont really count..but yea i will be gettin a new grocery getter..ill do the leg work and find a dealer who knows fair value of a fiesta or foci...damn things are grocery getters an nutin more..hell we aint talking 70 boss 302's here or scouts Grandpa's drunk again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Wait. There were addendums on the GTO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) The curious case of the GTO have nothing to do with Ford's offerings. The last Aussie Ford that was offered was Capri The GTO gradually improved over the years with styling and engines. IIRC the GTO was to be offered again after the G8 sport truck and wagon was introduced in 10' along with Monaro and Zeta Camaro but of course Pontiac died. The Monaro did not make it to Zeta, no other Nth American division could be convinced to take a two door car developed off a sedan platform and respect for the Camaro meant that development wold entail it being so much more than that. The biggest cut was GMNA cancelling Zeta based Impala and Lucerne replacement, without those vehicles, further expanson of Zetas in North America was terminally wounded. Time showed that GM could have easily embraced Zeta for one product cycle without, significant effect on its CAFE economy targets. Edited April 8, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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