RichardJensen Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 GM actually phased out the fleet only "classic" models like Cruze Limited, Malibu Limited, and Impala Limited last year. So, GM no longer doing something they shouldn't have been doing in the first place constitutes progress in your mind? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 GM actually phased out the fleet only "classic" models like Cruze Limited, Malibu Limited, and Impala Limited last year. This was part of GM's strategy to reduce fleet sales and focus on real retail customers. For 2017, there is a GMC Acadia Limited model available to retail customers. That should be it for "classic" models currently sold by GM in the U.S. When the new generation 2017 Acadia came out, it was a class smaller than the original Acadia. For 2017 GM offers both the new, smaller Acadia, as well as Acadia Limited (same as the original Acadia) for customers who want something bigger. So in other words, their strategy was to stop following a strategy that was stupid and caused artificially high fleet (and overall) sales in the first place? --- Honestly I think the decision to keep the Acadia "Limited" relates to the fact that they dropped the Saturn Outlook so early and had parts left over.....that's why you saw the Acadia's refresh at the rear use a lot of parts from the Outlook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 So in other words, their strategy was to stop following a strategy that was stupid and caused artificially high fleet (and overall) sales in the first place? --- Honestly I think the decision to keep the Acadia "Limited" relates to the fact that they dropped the Saturn Outlook so early and had parts left over.....that's why you saw the Acadia's refresh at the rear use a lot of parts from the Outlook. I think it was more along the lines of the next-gen Acadia coming out a year before the replacement of the other Lambdas and they could keep building the old one along with the others (Traverse and Enclave) with no extra effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 So, GM no longer doing something they shouldn't have been doing in the first place constitutes progress in your mind? Yes sir. There are lots of things they did in the past that were not favorable for their customers, employees, and investors. That's mostly gone. GM is a completely different company now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 GM is a completely different company now. No. They aren't. Not in a good way: GM pre-bankruptcy: Made bad loans on home mortgages GM post-bankruptcy: Making bad loans on cars GM pre-bankruptcy: Spent a fortune on Cadillac sedans that did not significantly expand market share--most profitable product is a Yukon with Cadillac badges GM post-bankruptcy: Is spending even more on Cadillac, and giving them even more autonomy--most profitable product is a Yukon with Cadillac badges GM pre-bankruptcy: Build 'em, then sell 'em GM post-bankruptcy: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2016/12/18/gm-production/95601094/ GM pre-bankruptcy: who cares about our pension obligations? GM post-bankruptcy: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-opel-m-a-peugeot-pensions-idUSKBN15Z128(net sale price of Opel: ~$1B, after accounting for pension obligations retained) GM pre-bankruptcy: We'll fix Opel eventually GM post-bankruptcy: Okay, I'll grant you this one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbevo Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I will agree with Perez on one thing: GM is making better cars and trucks, more frequently and consistently and with much better quality now. But I attribute that pretty much entirely to the $60B in government handouts and $70B in debt forgiveness they received and not to better management..... Otherwise, culturally and structurally, they are pretty much the same company. We'll find out what the real "new GM" is made of when gas climbs back to $4-5 a gallon and nobody wants their Suburbans, Tahoes and Escalades anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 F-Series outsold, not just Silverado and Sierra, but Silverado + Sierra + Colorado + Canyon COMBINED. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2017/04/best-selling-pickup-trucks-march-2017.html Wooo!!!!! Actually a better analogy would be that, Silverado + Sierra + Suburban + Tahoe + Yukon +Yukon L ++Escalade + Escalade ESV = 82,789 And that, F Series + Expedition + Navigator = 86,802 Not to gloat too much because Ford has no answer to Mid Sized Trucks like Colorado & Canyon for the next two years.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) We'll find out what the real "new GM" is made of when gas climbs back to $4-5 a gallon and nobody wants their Suburbans, Tahoes and Escalades anymore. And everyone will still buy F-Series?. Glad to see the Lacrosse increase along with old Regal. Impala actually is decent considering the Classic model is gone and Cruze cleans up, i don't get why Malibu is down but I think the Classic model is gone too, "No Cadillac buyer wants, expensive" CT6 matches "Howard Johnson value, fun-wheel- drive" Continental while XTS destroys it. GM need to get their new big and mid-sized CUVs out sooner then later, trucks not great but not awful either. Edited April 4, 2017 by Fgts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) And everyone will still buy F-Series?. Glad to see the Lacrosse increase along with old Regal. Impala actually is decent considering the Classic model is gone and Cruze cleans up, i don't get why Malibu is down but I think the Classic model is gone too, "No Cadillac buyer wants, expensive" CT6 matches "Howard Johnson value, fun-wheel- drive" Continental while XTS destroys it. GM need to get their new big and mid-sized CUVs out sooner then later, trucks not great but not awful either. Most cars are down across the industry, so it really doesn't matter to dwell on reasons why, the level of buyers is not there let alone the interest in non-utilities. Just be grateful that GM and Ford are powering on in the segments that make the most money and worry less about the nice to have but no longer essential car segments. Edited April 4, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 Actually a better analogy would be that, Silverado + Sierra + Suburban + Tahoe + Yukon +Yukon L ++Escalade + Escalade ESV = 82,789 And that, F Series + Expedition + Navigator = 86,802 .. I know it is hard to remember sometimes since they aren't marketed much, but you included the extended length GM SUVs but not the Ford models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbevo Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 And everyone will still buy F-Series?. Glad to see the Lacrosse increase along with old Regal. Impala actually is decent considering the Classic model is gone and Cruze cleans up, i don't get why Malibu is down but I think the Classic model is gone too, "No Cadillac buyer wants, expensive" CT6 matches "Howard Johnson value, fun-wheel- drive" Continental while XTS destroys it. GM need to get their new big and mid-sized CUVs out sooner then later, trucks not great but not awful either. "And everyone will still but F-Series?" ...... I think we've seen this movie before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I know it is hard to remember sometimes since they aren't marketed much, but you included the extended length GM SUVs but not the Ford models. Ford doesn't separate their extended wheelbase models in sales figures, they're included in Expedition or Navigator tallies. Whether they'll continue that when the new models debut, I'm not sure. And I think Yukon and Escalade are only separated because Tahoe and Suburban are separate names, so they continued that with the other two models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Most cars are down across the industry, so it really doesn't matter to dwell on reasons why, the level of buyers is not there let alone the interest in non-utilities. Just be grateful that GM and Ford are powering on in the segments that make the most money and worry less about the nice to have but no longer essential car segments. Yea I know the domestics don't really make money on cars but having efficient utilities married to cars will still keep them afloat and in-the-black during high gas prices unlike 08'(except FCA imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) And there's some good reasons why gas prices may never be as high as some people expect, I'm betting that rising interest rates and fewer buyers will slow things up long before rising gas prices take effect. Edited April 5, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Yes sir. There are lots of things they did in the past that were not favorable for their customers, employees, and investors. That's mostly gone. GM is a completely different company now. Wrong. I work at a GM dealership. It is not completely different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 GM still managed to make too many cars last year before planning to trim production, that ihas been the big driver behind aggressive incentives and its car sales staying higher. Conversely, Ford has much lower inventory levels and was under less pressure to engage buyers with incentive, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Right. GM is working through an inventory glut, their sales are going to be up while they get rid of it. Long term, they're cutting production, just like Ford. Only they're doing it later than Ford, which is just like GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 (edited) The heart of Old GM beats on with excess production, the consequences both good and bad are: full factory order books & bonuses, GM booking more revenue, advertising higher incentives to move those excesses. Edited April 6, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 KTP builds the Super Duty. OHAP builds the SD in some form but I'm not entirely sure which ones. OHAP builds the F6/750 trucks as well as some cab & chassis trucks in the F3/4/550 size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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