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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Camless engine production ready?


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17 replies to this topic

#1 ONLINE   akirby

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 08:08 AM

http://www.roadandtr...ction-in-china/

I think the software learning curve will be steep to get it to perform optimally under all scenarios and at higher rpm and power levels.

The ability to change the valve timing and duration individually is very interesting. You get the option of changing the engine from a 2 valve to a 3 valve or 4 valve or any combination in a millisecond.

It certainly reduces the amount of oil required to lubricate the top end and the parasitic engine drag.

It will be interesting to see how it scales in size and power and longevity, although I assume you could change out valve bodies just like injectors.

I wonder why they went port and not direct injection. Seems that would yield more immediate co trio over the fuel.

I don't see anything that would be prohibitively expensive either.
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#2 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:32 AM

I read this article when it was first published. It's a very interesting concept.

Now if they can perfect the software to be able to change timing on the fly or with the flip of a switch, you could potentially have the most versatile engine ever.

Go from hi torque towing to hitting the drag strip at the flip of a switch, what a concept.

What? What happened?


#3 ONLINE   akirby

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 10:23 AM

You wouldn't need a switch - the software could change it as needed on the fly.



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#4 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 11:14 AM

The switch is proverbial deal2.gif?t=1489767744

Let me clarify. The switch would be something (probably on a touchscreen) that tells the software what mode to be in. I don't see an adaptive "on the fly" type of software being viable.

Edited by fuzzymoomoo, 18 March 2017 - 02:21 PM.

What? What happened?


#5 OFFLINE   Sevensecondsuv

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 02:10 PM

Not much detail there. Does this use an electric actuator on an otherwise normal-ish set of intake and exhaust valves or are the valves completely different? I'm just wondering what longevity is going to be like with the electric actuators, especially on the exhaust side. Obviously one of the issues that would need to be solved before mass implementation.

Edited by Sevensecondsuv, 18 March 2017 - 02:11 PM.


#6 OFFLINE   SoonerLS

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:28 PM

Not much detail there. Does this use an electric actuator on an otherwise normal-ish set of intake and exhaust valves or are the valves completely different? I'm just wondering what longevity is going to be like with the electric actuators, especially on the exhaust side. Obviously one of the issues that would need to be solved before mass implementation.

The YouTube video shows pneumatic/hydraulic valves with electric controls. If nothing else, it looks very expensive...


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#7 OFFLINE   Sevensecondsuv

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:25 AM

The YouTube video shows pneumatic/hydraulic valves with electric controls. If nothing else, it looks very expensive...


Pneumatic valves sound like an, ummm, "interesting" choice of mechanism for something that has to cycle upwards of 60 times per second. Not saying they didn't make it work, but it just seems to me that the mechanical camshaft is a far better solution to the problem. Of course independent electronic control of each valve opens up some very interesting options for tuning.

Edited by Sevensecondsuv, 19 March 2017 - 03:26 AM.


#8 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:45 AM

There's a lot of potential for increased power density and with that, further downsizing.

I sure hopt that reliability follows technology but somehow, I doubt they've licked all the issues..



#9 OFFLINE   mackinaw

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:42 AM

Renault develop a camless engine for F1 racing many years back.



#10 OFFLINE   justins

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:27 PM

Christian von Koenigsegg is on the record as saying cams will be a thing of the past in 10 years. And that was 4 years ago. 

http://jalopnik.com/...uctio-453518481


Edited by justins, 19 March 2017 - 08:27 PM.

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#11 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:36 PM

A Chinese Auto manufacture was showing off a Camless engine they where developing with Koenigsegg engine development program.


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#12 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:32 PM

I read this article when it was first published. It's a very interesting concept.

Now if they can perfect the software to be able to change timing on the fly or with the flip of a switch, you could potentially have the most versatile engine ever.

Go from hi torque towing to hitting the drag strip at the flip of a switch, what a concept.

Or an opportunity to further downsize capacity and take the added fuel efficiency.and weight saving.



#13 OFFLINE   theoldwizard

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:36 AM

I don't think the software is really that big of a challenge.  Start be simply mimicking what is there and then just add cylinder-by-cylinder intake/exhaust advance retard.  Worst case, 2 processors with shared memory would be required.  Maybe 3 for Vee engines or if quad valve engine have different timing for the pairs.

 

Of course a true hardware cam angle detector, acurate to +/- 1/2 degree would help by being a second "clock" onside the processor.


Edited by theoldwizard, 21 March 2017 - 08:38 AM.


#14 ONLINE   akirby

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:52 AM

I don't think it will be difficult to get software that allows the engine to run.   But optimizing performance under all conditions and learning how to individually control the valves to get the max performance, durability and mpg is going to take years if not decades.   Look at the auto-manual trans - how long did it take to get it driveable under normal circumstances and not herky-jerky.   There is always a learning curve.



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#15 OFFLINE   blksn8k2

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 06:33 PM

Here is another interesting read on the subject:

 

http://hackaday.com/...amless-engines/


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#16 OFFLINE   Sonny Van Sickle Jr

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:13 PM

In a training session for the International 466E back in 1997 or so the instructor told us International was working them on a camless diesel. He also said to expect it within the next 5 to 10 years.

 Never happened.

 Perhaps the technology is much better 20 years later? After all it is an intriguing idea and concept. There are some videos on You Tube about camless engines



#17 OFFLINE   SoonerLS

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:25 PM

In a training session for the International 466E back in 1997 or so the instructor told us International was working them on a camless diesel. He also said to expect it within the next 5 to 10 years.

 Never happened.

 Perhaps the technology is much better 20 years later? After all it is an intriguing idea and concept. There are some videos on You Tube about camless engines

I heard about camless engines around the same time, but someone I know (an EE who worked for Ford at the time) said that it wasn't likely any time soon, mainly because of the inadequacy of the available materials.

 

Materials science has advanced quite a bit over the last 20 years.


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#18 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 01:56 AM

Improvements in conventional camshaft engines has also delayed the need to switch,

I wonder if electrification has taken away a lot of focus and the need for camless engines










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