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2019 Focus testing on ice


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45 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Gnostic

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:32 PM

I'm not disagreeing about the powershift DCT - I think it's a huge mistake not to replace it with a 6F.   But that's an entirely different transmission than the wet clutch 7 speed DCT which doesn't suffer from the same problems.

when are we getting the 9 speed JV w/ GM


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#22 ONLINE   Anthony

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:00 PM

I've learned to live with the shudder (ridiculous thing to say about multi-thousand dollar purchase, I know).  As long as the trans doesn't grenade on me, I just scrub the clutch once every 1k - 2k miles or so (about when I feel the shuddering come back) and it is good for a while. It takes about a minute on an empty road.  

 

The resale on these are so horrible, that trading it in or selling it won't recoup what I've used. So, driving it into the ground it will be.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note: Subject to change if I change my mind.  :)


Edited by Anthony, 17 March 2017 - 03:01 PM.


#23 ONLINE   jpd80

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:05 PM

 

The powershift issue is that it's a dry clutch design.  The wet clutch version still has a few quirks but none of the shuddering that folks complain about on the dry clutch version.  And the wet clutch 7 speed is a different transmission altogether.

Correct and having driven quite a few examples of wet clutch DCTs I can attest to the reliability.

 

So I'm wondering if the 1.5EB becomes the  delineation point for  the 7-speed DCT versus the 9AT.

This could be an interesting decision for Ford, do some models get DCT and not others or does Ford

maximize the use of its own in house developed auto?


Edited by jpd80, 17 March 2017 - 08:06 PM.

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#24 OFFLINE   MKII

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 03:59 AM

Are you all talking about the new 7DCT300 or the 6DCT450 which Ford uses with the diesel engines?

 

With Moray Callum making comments about the next Focus that sound familiar to what Ford N.A. said back in 2005 and 2008 " “It’s an entry-level model in the US, but not in Europe,” he said. “They will be visually similar but there will be less content for the US model. As well as a reduced level of standard equipment, the US Focus could feature less sophisticated suspension, given that the need for strong driving dynamics is less vital in this market and at this price point."

 

With comments like that  don't you think Ford N.A. will take the lowest cost avenue as far as what auto tranny will be used in the North American version?


Edited by MKII, 18 March 2017 - 08:20 AM.

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#25 ONLINE   jpd80

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 06:18 AM

Yes but without knowing which is cheaper, it could be either with the 1.5 EB...

moving production to Mexico will save costs and take a lot of pressure off pricing

 

and what Moray Callum was talking about goes to the entry point pricing and expected trim package,

by far the most popular trim level in the US is the SE (Trend) with fewer S (Studio/Ambiente) sales.

Clearly Ford does get planning wrong (Mexico) and then has to rework its priorities and move forward.

 

Regardless of what Ford chooses to do with entry point, I think buyers will tell dealers what

equipment levels are satisfactory. In the end, the actual buyer is always right.


Edited by jpd80, 18 March 2017 - 06:25 AM.


#26 OFFLINE   MKII

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 07:29 AM

So what you got from Callum's comment is that the North American SE MK4 will be offered with less content than the current N.A. Focus SE?


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#27 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 07:39 AM

So what you got from Callum's comment is that the North American SE MK4 will be offered with less content than the current N.A. Focus SE?

Look at what they did for MY2017, they severely de-contented the Focus. Some here would argue they streamlined the option packages by going from 200,000 orderable configurations to about 300, but compare the order guide from 2016 to 2017 and you'll see. It's almost as if they've given up on it. We've been told at MAP that they're not investing anything else into the Focus from here until the end of production next year.
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#28 OFFLINE   MKII

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 08:38 AM

Look at what they did for MY2017, they severely de-contented the Focus. 

I know that is why I made the point that it sounds like the Focus is going back to 2005 & 2008 type specs.  


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#29 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 04:32 PM

I know that is why I made the point that it sounds like the Focus is going back to 2005 & 2008 type specs.  

 

Given the Focus (no pun intended) on CUV's investment in products that don't make as much money will be limited. If Gas prices increase, its not like the Focus and Escape (which shouldn't be decontented) won't be sharing alot of the same parts so a Limited Focus won't be too hard to implement if necessary.

 

Its just given of what is happening in the North American marketplace. You can't force people to buy product they don't want. 


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#30 ONLINE   jpd80

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 04:49 PM

Look at what they did for MY2017, they severely de-contented the Focus. Some here would argue they streamlined the option packages by going from 200,000 orderable configurations to about 300, but compare the order guide from 2016 to 2017 and you'll see. It's almost as if they've given up on it. We've been told at MAP that they're not investing anything else into the Focus from here until the end of production next year.

 

The simplifying of the ordering guide is the shape of things to come and I'd expect that the Next Gen Focus will

continue that strategy by having plenty of optional features but they will be bundled to simplify ordering and build.

 

In my opinion, that is not de-contenting but more like Ford  responding to what buyers are actually asking for

and bundling that up into popular packages or the SEL model itself. The one exception is the elimination

of the 5-speed manual option from SE, that is unfortunate but sales of the 5MT may now be at a dribble.

 

Fuzzy, I think you're right about Ford losing interest. This rationalization of models and ordering is all about final

supply orders and the run to the finish, the numbers of builds required for 2018 would be set, probably conservatively.


Edited by jpd80, 18 March 2017 - 05:09 PM.


#31 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 05:07 PM

 
Given the Focus (no pun intended) on CUV's investment in products that don't make as much money will be limited. If Gas prices increase, its not like the Focus and Escape (which shouldn't be decontented) won't be sharing alot of the same parts so a Limited Focus won't be too hard to implement if necessary.
 
Its just given of what is happening in the North American marketplace. You can't force people to buy product they don't want. 

outside of the basic platform, there's way more shared between the Escape and C-Max than the Escape and Focus. Most of the C-Max parts around my work area are labeled with the program code for the Escape. The door panels are identical.
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#32 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 05:11 PM

I can get behind streamlining packages for something like the Focus, 200,000 configurations is entirely too many for average joe buyer, and it's not like is an F-150 which they need to consider a very large variety of needs for both average joe buyer and the fleet work truck orders. The fact that they took that many standalone options out really bugs me. The fact that I can't order a sunroof on anything but a titanium or ST/RS as part of a package deal seems very wrong to me, outside of the base series that should be a standalone option.

Edited by fuzzymoomoo, 18 March 2017 - 05:13 PM.

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#33 ONLINE   jpd80

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 05:28 PM

I can get behind streamlining packages for something like the Focus, 200,000 configurations is entirely too many for average joe buyer, and it's not like is an F-150 which they need to consider a very large variety of needs for both average joe buyer and the fleet work truck orders. The fact that they took that many standalone options out really bugs me. The fact that I can't order a sunroof on anything but a titanium or ST/RS as part of a package deal seems very wrong to me, outside of the base series that should be a standalone option.

I understand what you're saying and with that also understand what Ford would want to lock in build projections to the finish.

it's a nice neat way for Ford to reduce complication but sadly, it also tramples the individuality of ordering a custom vehicles

with just the options those buyers want....

 

Bundling options advantages Ford more than buyers,  the marketing to buyers is the total savings

on all options in the bundle but you still pay more  than if just ordering the individual option.

 

Europeans generally prefer more standard content  in their vehicle trim levels

rather than going through a long list of optioning, that's a cultural difference

Ford still does not fully understand - that and the correct product mix.

 

Shoot if it came down to having S, SE, SEL and Titanium, I'd change the S

from just a base to a Sport Appearance package and make each model

more specific to actual buying preferences.


Edited by jpd80, 18 March 2017 - 05:52 PM.


#34 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 06:20 PM

outside of the basic platform, there's way more shared between the Escape and C-Max than the Escape and Focus. Most of the C-Max parts around my work area are labeled with the program code for the Escape. The door panels are identical.

 

 

I can get behind streamlining packages for something like the Focus, 200,000 configurations is entirely too many for average joe buyer, and it's not like is an F-150 which they need to consider a very large variety of needs for both average joe buyer and the fleet work truck orders. The fact that they took that many standalone options out really bugs me. The fact that I can't order a sunroof on anything but a titanium or ST/RS as part of a package deal seems very wrong to me, outside of the base series that should be a standalone option.

 

The green house glass on the C-max is more or less identical to the Escape also. Seems like they differ sheetmetal wise from the B-pillar down.

 

Moonroofs always have stuff bundled with them on most cars...my wife's first Escape had a Moon and Tune option which was Sync and a Moonroof with it. Other cars require you to get homelink with the Moon Roof also.


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Ford Products owned though the years:
1986 Escort GT Race Red
1998 Mustang GT Dark Green Satin
2002 SVT Focus Satin Silver
2006 Mustang GT Tungsten Grey

2010 Escape XLT AWD Sport Blue
2013 Taurus SHO Ruby Red

2017 Escape SE AWD Platinum White

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2021 Bronco

20xx Mustang GT350 or the like

 

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#35 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 06:45 PM

The green house glass on the C-max is more or less identical to the Escape also. Seems like they differ sheetmetal wise from the B-pillar down.
 

I'm pretty sure the IP is the same between the two as well.
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#36 ONLINE   rmc523

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:21 AM

I'm pretty sure the IP is the same between the two as well.

 

Yes it is.


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#37 OFFLINE   630land

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:35 PM

I have an SE with leather seats and no sunroof. If I want to replace my car, I have to get a Titanium, and deal with sunroof. When cars only sell with huge rebates can't expect "build your own unique combination". Want manual? get an ST/RS. Want loaded, get a Ti. Want average Joe, get SE. I think they can kill off the S, but it's for dealer "bait and switch"

 

"Severely de-contented"? No, you can still get a Titanium, well equipped, just cant get a loaded SE that is just about the same car.   Reality is compact car sales are down, gas is cheap. UV's are hot cakes. [And why B*****6 isn't on here anymore] Someone said "Ford is giving up", but look at what sells for top dollar. Again, what do you expect, Government to mandate compact car sales? {B*****6's idea}  Also, at least Ford didn't drop their cars like Chrysler did to the 200 and Neon Dart.

 

It's not 2008 with $5 gas.

Only if another recession comes will compacts come back, but who wants another recession?

 

Resale is poor for almost all cars [anything not classed as a truck] these days. Ford dealers want to sell more trucks/utes, anyway to get more allocation.

 

I'll drive till wheels fall off, no need to get new car every year like 1965.


Edited by 630land, 20 March 2017 - 03:02 PM.


#38 OFFLINE   630land

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:52 PM

Until the real car is shown, I am not going to agree with "back to 2005 and 2008 specs".

 

The top selling compact, Honda Civic, is doing well with "loaded" models, Ford would be foolish to ignore them. I don't see them selling "only" de-contented models as some claim.



#39 OFFLINE   bzcat

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:09 PM

I don't think we will see a Focus with less content in the US... that's not what the customers are asking for.

 

What we will see is a Focus with lower costs.

 

Twist beam instead of IRS.

Conventional auto instead of DCT.

Streamlined packages instead of individual options.

One or two interior theme instead of four or five.

No more profit sapping "S" model.

etc

 

But rest assure every standard equipment in a Civic Touring will be in a Focus Titanium. And every standard equipment in a Civic LX will in in a Focus SE.


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#40 OFFLINE   2b2

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:57 PM

"severely de-contented"...

I'm under the impression that frequently variants/opts get reduced for the last year of a 'program'.

So whatever replaces the C346-Focus could have more & revamped features available.


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