To Sport or Not To Sport (Fusion)....That is the question

[jasonj80]

This is why we should demand that cars have a set price, like every single other mass produced product. It's ridiculous that cars are treated like houses. I would love it if Ford and Lincoln adopted the Saturn pricing strategy

Luckily with a/x/z plan it is, dealer will show you the price it is printed on the bottom of the invoice, you can go online and it will be shown for that exact vehicle.

[StevenCaylor]

Back when I bought my current car, a 2000 Mustang, in September of 99, I went through the AAA Fleet Order Program. I had test driven a 99 for a few months as a rental, so I knew I wanted the car (manual vs auto though). The AAA made a reservation for me with the closest fleet dealer to where I lived. I went to KBB to get all the codes for every option, drivetrain and color that I wanted and printed it out. I arrived at the dealership and said "Order this car for me" and handed him the printout. He said "Oh. You've done your homework". I paid a $200 deposit and was out the door in 10 minutes. It's a no hassle deal for only slightly above dealer invoice. Ordering the car gets you exactly​ what you want, no more, no less. I don't like car salesmen because, being a car enthusiast, I know more about their product than they do. All three of my previous vehicles have been factory ordered (65 Mustang, 83 Escort GT and 87 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe). The car arrived eight weeks later.

Edited March 9, 2017 by StevenCaylor

[ANTAUS]

I'm "the person" that helps all my friends purchase vehicles. I have numerous stories to tell. Yes, more times than I care to I have had to have a public conniption to get keys back, twice had to call police. Toyota dealerships are the worst at wanting to negotiate, they think their shit doesn't stink. Most times we just walk out because it's not the only player in town. Anyhow, what has worked for me is finding the same vehicles in Carmax, and going there to test drive it and compare to others my friends might be interested in. Then finally when they make a decision I have learned getting online quotes have been much easier. Many dealerships have a NO B/S policy when it comes to online purchasing/quotes mainly because they feel info is at your fingertips so they aren't going to waste much time. And making sure when you go to the dealership to do the paperwork there's no added BS fees attached. "Prep, dealer Fees, protection package" etc. which I'm not paying for. This to me has been the move effective way I've been able to navigate with the BS. And yes I agree, when you find a specific dealership that is easy to negotiate with, stick to it and dealerships that are used to seeing you service your vehicle and such, tend to be "nicer" with the price because they figure they will make it up with the service aspect of it.

[jcartwright99]

I'm "the person" that helps all my friends purchase vehicles. I have numerous stories to tell. Yes, more times than I care to I have had to have a public conniption to get keys back, twice had to call police. Toyota dealerships are the worst at wanting to negotiate, they think their shit doesn't stink. Most times we just walk out because it's not the only player in town. Anyhow, what has worked for me is finding the same vehicles in Carmax, and going there to test drive it and compare to others my friends might be interested in. Then finally when they make a decision I have learned getting online quotes have been much easier. Many dealerships have a NO B/S policy when it comes to online purchasing/quotes mainly because they feel info is at your fingertips so they aren't going to waste much time. And making sure when you go to the dealership to do the paperwork there's no added BS fees attached. "Prep, dealer Fees, protection package" etc. which I'm not paying for. This to me has been the move effective way I've been able to navigate with the BS. And yes I agree, when you find a specific dealership that is easy to negotiate with, stick to it and dealerships that are used to seeing you service your vehicle and such, tend to be "nicer" with the price because they figure they will make it up with the service aspect of it.

 

After taking the time to reflect, there were two big issues I had. The not giving me back the key after I requested it (that's pretty bad). The other has to do with the trade. I did my research on the web (kbb,bb, truecar, etc) understanding that I probably would get a little less than I wanted. I was fine with that. However, since I have Z plan. There is no room for negotiation on price. It is what it is. It was like the salesman was determined to screw me on my trade once he found out I had Z plan. He kept trying to distract me to what kind of payment I wanted. I kept telling him it didn't matter. Just like how much I owed on the car. I am like why does that matter? Then he kept saying well since you aren't paying X amount of sales tax, it's like we gave you this much for your car. BUT IT'S NOT! Oh well, I will tell folks to stay away from that dealer, if they ask. Giant clown show there.

 

Yeah, I thought I would venture out to a new dealership just because the one I have dealt with didn't have what I wanted in their inventory. I will go back to the one I have made deals with in the past and see what they can do.

[rmc523]

 

After taking the time to reflect, there were two big issues I had. The not giving me back the key after I requested it (that's pretty bad). The other has to do with the trade. I did my research on the web (kbb,bb, truecar, etc) understanding that I probably would get a little less than I wanted. I was fine with that. However, since I have Z plan. There is no room for negotiation on price. It is what it is. It was like the salesman was determined to screw me on my trade once he found out I had Z plan. He kept trying to distract me to what kind of payment I wanted. I kept telling him it didn't matter. Just like how much I owed on the car. I am like why does that matter? Then he kept saying well since you aren't paying X amount of sales tax, it's like we gave you this much for your car. BUT IT'S NOT! Oh well, I will tell folks to stay away from that dealer, if they ask. Giant clown show there.

 

Yeah, I thought I would venture out to a new dealership just because the one I have dealt with didn't have what I wanted in their inventory. I will go back to the one I have made deals with in the past and see what they can do.

 

Dealers can also sometimes work out trades with other dealers (whether or not that is limited to dealers within the same network/company, I'm not sure, but that's probably more likely) too, so if another dealer has what you want, you may be able to get your preferred dealer to trade for it.

[SoonerLS]

Dealers can also sometimes work out trades with other dealers (whether or not that is limited to dealers within the same network/company, I'm not sure, but that's probably more likely) too, so if another dealer has what you want, you may be able to get your preferred dealer to trade for it.

Ford dealers can trade with any other Ford dealer (on new vehicles)--my parents, as a retirement project, drive cars for a local dealer, and they've been as far away as Dallas and Missouri to exchange vehicles. Unfortunately, not all dealers are reasonable on what they want in exchange, particularly if your dealer is trying to trade for something that's in high demand, so being able to trade doesn't always mean they can make the trade.

[rmc523]

Ford dealers can trade with any other Ford dealer (on new vehicles)--my parents, as a retirement project, drive cars for a local dealer, and they've been as far away as Dallas and Missouri to exchange vehicles. Unfortunately, not all dealers are reasonable on what they want in exchange, particularly if your dealer is trying to trade for something that's in high demand, so being able to trade doesn't always mean they can make the trade.

 

Oh I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but it's something that can potentially be tried if another dealer had specifically what he wanted as opposed to ordering one and waiting.

[MKX1960]

 

Oh I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but it's something that can potentially be tried if another dealer had specifically what he wanted as opposed to ordering one and waiting.

I did this with both my MKT and Tremor. The Tremor was at another dealer here in town, so was a few hours to get it. The MKT was in California, so it took a while to get that one. On the first attempt, they sent the wrong car. The 2 cars they had were sequential VIN numbers with one ending in 28 the other 29. My dealer decided to keep the earth gray they got by mistake and got my black one.

[SoonerLS]

Oh I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but it's something that can potentially be tried if another dealer had specifically what he wanted as opposed to ordering one and waiting.

It's definitely worth trying; my '06 LS was a dealer trade. Over the years, I tried dealing with most of the Ford dealers in the OKC metro area, and they're pretty much all not worth a warm bucket of spit (one of them actually snuck something into the paperwork after I explicitly told him I did not want it--that was almost 25 years ago and I still wouldn't go to that dealership if my local dealer hadn't bought the place). The only one I'll deal with is my local dealer, who's always done right by me.

[jasonj80]

It's definitely worth trying; my '06 LS was a dealer trade. Over the years, I tried dealing with most of the Ford dealers in the OKC metro area, and they're pretty much all not worth a warm bucket of spit (one of them actually snuck something into the paperwork after I explicitly told him I did not want it--that was almost 25 years ago and I still wouldn't go to that dealership if my local dealer hadn't bought the place). The only one I'll deal with is my local dealer, who's always done right by me.

Wasn't OKC where Ford bought and ran all the dealers for a time during some of the Nasser years?

 

 

Also Costco is a great way to buy a car, super simple, no haggle and because of the way it is done very little is actually done at the dealer.

Edited March 10, 2017 by jasonj80

[SoonerLS]

Wasn't OKC where Ford bought and ran all the dealers for a time during some of the Nasser years?

Yep, Ford bought most of the dealerships in OKC sometime around the turn of the century. By that time I'd had such awful experiences with nearly all of them that I'd decided to stick with my local dealer (which wasn't bought by Ford, and actually now owns a couple of the dealerships that Ford had bought). FWIW, when Ford bought the dealerships, my local dealer actually ran ads about how they'd remained independent.

[Lightningblue]

I've got a Sport and I had the dead battery issue. It's now fixed but the fix hasn't worked for everybody. I just noticed today that my PTU is leaking so I have to get that fixed. This car has been in the shop longer than all of the other cars I've owned combined. I'm over 50. If you plan on keeping a Sport past the powertrain warranty, either get it extended or put away $ to replace the PTU. It's not a matter of if but when. If you're aggressive with the "go" pedal, it will be sooner.

[jcartwright99]

I've got a Sport and I had the dead battery issue. It's now fixed but the fix hasn't worked for everybody. I just noticed today that my PTU is leaking so I have to get that fixed. This car has been in the shop longer than all of the other cars I've owned combined. I'm over 50. If you plan on keeping a Sport past the powertrain warranty, either get it extended or put away $ to replace the PTU. It's not a matter of if but when. If you're aggressive with the "go" pedal, it will be sooner.

 

When was yours built? I am looking at things built from 2017 on so if there was an early build issue, hopefully they have solved it by now with the battery issue.

 

In regards to the PTU, part of me wants to change the fluid to an Amsoil or Royal Purple formula for longer life. From what I've heard ( I could be wrong), but part of the problem is the fluid that ford uses. Once it gets hot, it's useless. Again, I could be wrong but that is what I have read else where.

[fordtech1]

 

When was yours built? I am looking at things built from 2017 on so if there was an early build issue, hopefully they have solved it by now with the battery issue.

 

In regards to the PTU, part of me wants to change the fluid to an Amsoil or Royal Purple formula for longer life. From what I've heard ( I could be wrong), but part of the problem is the fluid that ford uses. Once it gets hot, it's useless. Again, I could be wrong but that is what I have read else where.

It depends. If they leak from where the axle goes in, then it's a seal/bushing issue that can be repaired without entire unit replacement. If it's leaking out the top vent, then it's cooked. I'm not sure why Ford has not changed the fluid that is used. I think there several factors to ptu failure. Not just poor fluid. Most PTUs are killed by heat. Whether it is from different tires sizes, leaked out fluid, manufacturing defect in the bearings. Either way, changing the fluid, even if it's putting same fluid back in, periodically. Maybe be the best defense. Edited March 12, 2017 by fordtech1

[fordtech1]

Also, just a FYI. I have seen PTUs need replacement at 130k miles without any service and I've replaced some at 20k miles. It's almost a crap shoot.

[transitman]

I'm a little late to the dance and haven't read all the replies, but my response is: how much potential power do you feel you need? The 2.0 goes pretty good and unless you're 18 and you and you're buddies like to drag, for 90% of the time, you're going to drive it like a family sedan. Other than a couple of features available only on the Sport, they're essentially the same car.

[Lightningblue]

Mine has an August build date so yeah, early. I had planned on changing the oil in the PTU once a year and was happy to see that the PTU has a drain plug. However, it is very tight under there and I don't see a way to get at the fill plug. Can't even see it. I plan on looking closer once it warms up outside.

[brucelinc]

Yes, my Conti has a drain plug but I am not sure it even HAS a fill plug. I couldn't see one, either. It does appear to be water cooled like a police Interceptor, though. Not sure if a Fusion Sport is water cooled or not.

[fordtech1]

Mine has an August build date so yeah, early. I had planned on changing the oil in the PTU once a year and was happy to see that the PTU has a drain plug. However, it is very tight under there and I don't see a way to get at the fill plug. Can't even see it. I plan on looking closer once it warms up outside.

The fill plug is on right side of Ptu. They take about 23 oz of synethic 75w140. Depending if it's a 6f35 or 6f50 trans, the fill plug is either towards the middle or back of Ptu on the side.

[blwnsmoke]

Also, just a FYI. I have seen PTUs need replacement at 130k miles without any service and I've replaced some at 20k miles. It's almost a crap shoot.

 

 

Obviously you see issues day in and day out. On my Explorer forum, the PTUs tend to sludge up by 30,000 miles on them and as you stated due to heat. I know the PTU on the Explorer has been redesigned 3 times. The issue I see is that the original ones did not have a drain plug, only a fill plug. And there was never anything in the manual to change it on a maintenance schedule (because it is "lifetime").

 

Even with heat, if the fluid is changed out on a service interval, I think that would save a ton of these from failing.

[fordtech1]

 

 

Obviously you see issues day in and day out. On my Explorer forum, the PTUs tend to sludge up by 30,000 miles on them and as you stated due to heat. I know the PTU on the Explorer has been redesigned 3 times. The issue I see is that the original ones did not have a drain plug, only a fill plug. And there was never anything in the manual to change it on a maintenance schedule (because it is "lifetime").

 

Even with heat, if the fluid is changed out on a service interval, I think that would save a ton of these from failing.

Definitely a service interval would be a good idea. I think they need more fluid capacity in them also.

[Lightningblue]

Fluid capacity is only 15.2oz. Not even half a quart.

[jcartwright99]

Well after much consideration, I chose not to Sport (and no to a Fusion). I went to several dealers around here and once they found out I was Z plan, immediately lowballed me by a bunch for my trade. My dealer had a few Sports that had been on the lot at their sister dealer (on the lot since October of 16) and a loaded one on order. They said they could trade with other dealers but could take a while to find what I was looking for. Even while beating everyone elses trade price, it was just ok. Once I did the math with all taxes and such, I wasn't that impressed with the Z plan on the Fusion. It seemed they were willing to give just about anybody a deal just as good as me.

 

I ended up on the Lincoln CPO website, just to see what they had. I almost pulled a trigger a relatively loaded (but not black label) 2016 with AWD, 4k miles with 3.7 for 31750 (and they beat the trade price). I just didn't like the wheels and the color was black so it looked like a livery car. They also had a 2015 Black Label Chroma Couture (Black/Brown paint with Brown interior) that looked nice but I couldn't get over having a brownish car.

 

I did another search and expanded the area. I found a loaded CPO 2017 AWD 3.0 Reserve with Drivers Package that stickered for 57 with 35k on the clock. It was 4.5 hours away in St. Louis though. Well, I did a lot of driving tonight and ended up taking it home. I got the highest on my trade and got it a hair over 31 with 1.9% for 72. About 30/month cheaper than the base 401a Fusion Sport.

 

It beautiful and it really does fly. I have no idea how to work anything yet and will be reading the manuals on how all the gadgets work. On a negative, I may have a rattle and/or a howl. I can't say for sure though, more investigation is needed and I don't know what is normal. Thankfully I have a nice warranty where they will pick it up and drop off a loaner if I determine anything is wrong. I put some pics up within the week.

[jniffen]

The Ford dealership stories are similar to mine.
Up in the Twin Cities area, they think their sh1t don't stink

 

One Dealer was only going to offer $500 for my LS, the sales guy looked at me and new he lost the sale.

 

Bought in Nov 2015, CPO 2013 Volvo S60, AWD Turbo 5 cylinder, 20K miles.

Mainly because,

The dealer did have to ride with us.

I got $2,000 for my car,

Extended warranty until 2020 or 70K miles.

All for for $24K.

I have owned Ford, Mercury or Lincoln since my first car in 1976.

Might go back, if Ford/Lincoln can get their dealers' heads out of their asses.

[jpd80]

If you want to avoid being scalped by the dealerships with say, Z plan, the best course is to sell your vehicle privately and go "no trade".

it prevents the dealer getting any opportunity to claw back any savings you're getting.

 

If you want to go a step further, send out an email to several dealers, laying out exactly what vehicle and options you want on your Z plan

advise that this deal is with no trade in, let them all see who they are bidding against and just wait for the lowest quote to come back.

 

Try it sometime, I've had several friend car shop this way and it works, dealers hate it because there's no opportunity to pressure you

with lots of swirling numbers and the puppy love of the vehicle sitting over there. Also be prepared to walk away if you don't like

what comes back. Again respond to those you want or cc in all of them and tell them you're considering a competitor's vehicle...

 

Just keep the [pressure on them until you get the deal...oh, and wait until the last few days of the month when dealers are hungry.

Edited March 25, 2017 by jpd80