bzcat Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) It also makes it a lot harder for them to respond to anything Ford does with the Ranger. That's true to some extent but as you can see, GM is not averse to making wholesale changes to the truck when they feel like they need to i.e. the North American Colorado is heavily updated from the original D-Max to the point that only the shape of the front and rear door window are the same. In that respect, GM's strategy is actually more like Toyota's... a cheap basic truck (Hilux) for the rest of the world and a more expensive truck (Tacoma) for the US market. Ford will try to have its cake and eat it too with a single Ranger. Edited February 28, 2017 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Any possibility the Ranger will be aluminum (I hope)? or maybe discussed already! I'm hearing it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I'm hearing it is. that would partially explain the rumors floating around the last few days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I'm hearing it is. Crossing fingers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Crossing fingers... Me too. An aluminum crew cab Ranger diesel or 2.7 EB with a 10 speed would probably make me forget about the F-150 I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I would love for it to be aluminum - I'm just having a hard time justifying it. Maybe they feel it will give them a big advantage over Canyorado and Tacoma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I would love for it to be aluminum - I'm just having a hard time justifying it. Maybe they feel it will give them a big advantage over Canyorado and Tacoma. Trying to break into the mid 30s mileage ratings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Trying to break into the mid 30s mileage ratings? Sure but it's only worth it if that translates to a significant sales boost or helps significantly with CAFE. It's a slam dunk on 900K vehicles per year but at Ranger volumes I don't think it's so cut and dried. Maybe they're planning on higher volume than I was originally thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Sure but it's only worth it if that translates to a significant sales boost or helps significantly with CAFE. It's a slam dunk on 900K vehicles per year but at Ranger volumes I don't think it's so cut and dried. Maybe they're planning on higher volume than I was originally thinking. With the experience and buying power that Ford has, is it really that much more expensive to go with Al now over steel? I don't know, I'm asking. With the F150, it was a huge, expensive gamble, but with a 'new' plant coming up for the Ranger, and having the experience of the Ranger's big brothers behind them, not to mention the buying power for all that Al, I wouldn't think Al would be that much more expensive than sticking with steel now. It wouldn't be worth redesigning the truck just to go with Al, but if it is getting a redesign anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 With the experience and buying power that Ford has, is it really that much more expensive to go with Al now over steel? I don't know, I'm asking. With the F150, it was a huge, expensive gamble, but with a 'new' plant coming up for the Ranger, and having the experience of the Ranger's big brothers behind them, not to mention the buying power for all that Al, I wouldn't think Al would be that much more expensive than sticking with steel now. It wouldn't be worth redesigning the truck just to go with Al, but if it is getting a redesign anyway... Yeah, I have to agree. In a vacuum, a move to aluminum by itself might not make sense. But when you look at it in tandem with F-150, Super Duty, and now Expy/Navigator, volumes for Al vehicles could make it more affordable to do....and they've already done the R&D of aluminum production on the "big boys," and now the baby brother can benefit from those efforts. Not to mention, it would leap Ford well in front of the competition in the segment and further the 'Built Ford Tough' and innovator image that Ford has in the truck market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Me too. An aluminum crew cab Ranger diesel or 2.7 EB with a 10 speed would probably make me forget about the F-150 I want. Which may be a strong reason why Ford wouldn’t do it. They wouldn’t want people to opt for a Ranger over an F-150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Which may be a strong reason why Ford wouldn’t do it. They wouldn’t want people to opt for a Ranger over an F-150. The flip side of that coin is that if they don't put something with a bit more HP in it like the 2.7EB, some will shop the Tacoma and Canyonado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 The flip side of that coin is that if they don't put something with a bit more HP in it like the 2.7EB, some will shop the Tacoma and Canyonado. I think that may've been more directed at the aluminum part than the powertrain. 2.7 I think will be there regardless of aluminum or steel, at least on top trims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Which may be a strong reason why Ford wouldn’t do it. They wouldn’t want people to opt for a Ranger over an F-150. I think that was a concern back when they were only selling 600K F150s but now that they're in the 900K range I think splitting sales to Ranger will actually help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 not to mention the F-150 has become more and more unobtainable for the regular working guy.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Also, consider the lessons learned with production roll out of Aluminum bodies across F150, Super Duty, Expedition and Navigator. If you were developing an alloy body for Ranger and Everest in a vacuum then no, it wouldn't make sense but consider the difference in supply logistics, technical support and real world experience now available to make the change if Ford wants to... It's almost like F Series and the Utilities now gives momentum to enable other vehicles to follow if Ford chooses to do so.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 not to mention the F-150 has become more and more unobtainable for the regular working guy.............. Which is why I think the new Ranger will be steel, not aluminum. Aluminum costs more than steel so a steel-bodied Ranger will be cheaper to produce than an aluminum one. And offering Ranger at a lower cost than the F-150 will give the marketing guys what they want, a real split between the two trucks. Of course, just speculation on my part, while I have contacts in Ford Engineering, I have absolutely no knowledge about the upcoming Ranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 For me personally, I'd be willing to pay "near" F150 prices for a Ranger that is 90% of an F150. I don't need the towing of an F150. 7k lbs would be more than enough. I do want most of the tech the F150 has though. Just in a smaller package. Something that fits into my garage without totally consuming it. The one thing the Canyonado has proven is that the market can bear a 90% of a 1/2 ton midsizer with all the bells and whistles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Which is why I think the new Ranger will be steel, not aluminum. Aluminum costs more than steel so a steel-bodied Ranger will be cheaper to produce than an aluminum one. And offering Ranger at a lower cost than the F-150 will give the marketing guys what they want, a real split between the two trucks. Of course, just speculation on my part, while I have contacts in Ford Engineering, I have absolutely no knowledge about the upcoming Ranger. How much more does it cost to build an Al truck vs. a steel one? Seriously, I would like to know the difference. If it costs so much more, why did the cost of comparable equipped F150 and Super Duty trucks not go up considerably from pre-aluminum to aluminum versions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 How much more does it cost to build an Al truck vs. a steel one? Seriously, I would like to know the difference. If it costs so much more, why did the cost of comparable equipped F150 and Super Duty trucks not go up considerably from pre-aluminum to aluminum versions? I suppose it's possible that Ford ate the cost in order to limit price increases, but volume probably has something to do with it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) How much more does it cost to build an Al truck vs. a steel one? Seriously, I would like to know the difference. If it costs so much more, why did the cost of comparable equipped F150 and Super Duty trucks not go up considerably from pre-aluminum to aluminum versions? Market pressure for one. Ford can’t charge substantially more for an F-150 than a Chevy or Ram, or they’ll loose sales. As for the price of aluminum vs. steel, the latest info I can find is that (for raw materials) aluminum is 3 times more expensive than steel. Of course this is a general figure, I’m sure Ford has signed long-term agreements with Alcoa, Alcan and others, locking in a more competitive price. But I have to believe that any way you slice it, aluminum is more expensive than steel. EDIT: From Forbes (2015), aluminum adds about $500 to the cost of an F-150. Edited February 28, 2017 by mackinaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 How much more does it cost to build an Al truck vs. a steel one? Seriously, I would like to know the difference. If it costs so much more, why did the cost of comparable equipped F150 and Super Duty trucks not go up considerably from pre-aluminum to aluminum versions? ...As for the price of aluminum vs. steel, the latest info I can find is that (for raw materials) aluminum is 3 times more expensive than steel. Of course this is a general figure, I’m sure Ford has signed long-term agreements with Alcoa, Alcan and others, locking in a more competitive price. But I have to believe that any way you slice it, aluminum is more expensive than steel. last time I read something about this issue, someone clarified that the prices were compared Pound-for-POUND... ...and of course the rationale of aluminum is to use FEWER pounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I suppose it's possible that Ford ate the cost in order to limit price increases, but volume probably has something to do with it too. Possible, and maybe part of the reason the difference between invoice and MSRP decreased with the '15 F150 and '17 SD. But yes, volume is a huge part. Market pressure for one. Ford can’t charge substantially more for an F-150 than a Chevy or Ram, or they’ll loose sales. As for the price of aluminum vs. steel, the latest info I can find is that (for raw materials) aluminum is 3 times more expensive than steel. Of course this is a general figure, I’m sure Ford has signed long-term agreements with Alcoa, Alcan and others, locking in a more competitive price. But I have to believe that any way you slice it, aluminum is more expensive than steel. EDIT: From Forbes (2015), aluminum adds about $500 to the cost of an F-150. I don't doubt that Al is more expensive, but $500 isn't as drastic as some are making it out to be, especially on a vehicle that nets $10k per. I know when you sell 800k trucks, it's a big deal, but when you add other goodies to bring the price (and profit) up, and incentives down, I would say it's a wash. I wonder, did Forbes include the recycling in that as well? And that was before Ford had things locked in for the Super Duty (and possibly Ranger). last time I read something about this issue, someone clarified that the prices were compared Pound-for-POUND... ...and of course the rationale of aluminum is to use FEWER pounds BINGO! Steel costs more / lb, but if you use fewer lbs... I would like to see a cost breakdown from Ford to see just how much more it costs to build a truck with Al vs. steel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Market pressure for one. Ford cant charge substantially more for an F-150 than a Chevy or Ram, or theyll loose sales. Actually, maybe they can... http://www.autonews.com/article/20170227/RETAIL/170229860/gm-dials-up-discounts-on-pickups-as-rivals-tread-on-turf GM is spending 26 percent more in discounts on each Silverado truck than Fiat Chrysler does for its Ram and 85 percent more than Ford does on its on F series, according to the Power Information Network data, which J.D. Power doesnt release to the public. GM also lost sales ground in 2016. Deliveries dropped 4.3 percent for the Silverado and 1.1 percent for the Sierra last year. The F series gained 5.2 percent to seal a 35th straight year as the top-selling vehicle line in the U.S., and Ram pickup sales rose 8.7 percent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 And from a supply perspective- isn't there a world wide glut of aluminum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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