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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Caprice and SS gone after this year


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39 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 11:38 PM

18 to 20 feet??



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#22 OFFLINE   sullynd

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 08:24 AM

I never see state police Taurus'. Do you consider 55 rural? The Ryan? I only see Caprice.


Passed two ISP Caprices this morning. One at 55/Central, one 55/California.

Edited by sullynd, 20 January 2017 - 08:25 AM.


#23 OFFLINE   tbone

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:15 AM

I never see state police Taurus'. Do you consider 55 rural? The Ryan? I only see Caprice.


ISP has both vehicles. There seem to be more Taurus' on the tollways, but I have seen them on the aforementioned expressways as well.

#24 OFFLINE   J-150

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:41 AM

I haven't seen any Caprice's in Ontario Canada.

I see Taurus, Explorer, Tahoe and Charger. Some CVs still running municipaly
I want a 5.0 equipped Focus

#25 OFFLINE   grbeck

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 10:31 AM

I've seen one Caprice police car. It is part of the fleet for Middletown, Pa., a small borough outside of Harrisburg.

 

Why that small department chose a Caprice is a good question. I'm guessing that a borough council member is related to one of the local Chevrolet dealers.



#26 OFFLINE   old_fairmont_wagon

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 12:04 PM

Three things killed the Caprice in the US.  Price as it was priced much higher than other comparably SIZED vehicles, Availability as often, there were no dealers anywhere near me that even had one to test drive, much less sell, and advertising as I don't believe I've ever seen an ad for the vehicle in anything other than online media, and only then on a handful of websites.  From a conversation that I once had with a local Chevrolet salesman, they didn't want to deal with ordering and selling them at all.

 

This is what enthusiasts have come to expect.  First, the vehicle isn't offered, then they decide to eventually offer it, but make it so difficult to buy through price and availability, then, once it flops in the market, they point and scream and shout that there are no real enthusiasts and that it was just misguided loyalty to those non-existent enthusiasts that killed the project.

 

And, of course, this completely misses that Fiat-Chrysler continues to move the 300/charger in volume even on ancient platforms with below average dynamics.  There is a market, but it does have its limits.


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#27 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 12:33 PM

In most cases there really isn't a stand alone business case for the vehicle, that's why the volume is kept low and no advertising.  In this case I think they were throwing the Aussies a bone for something else.



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#28 OFFLINE   grbeck

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 12:54 PM

Personally, I absolutely shocked that bringing over the rear-wheel-drive vehicle demanded by internet experts who only buy them used hasn't panned out as a profitable venture.


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#29 OFFLINE   MY93SHO

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 12:58 PM

In most cases there really isn't a stand alone business case for the vehicle, that's why the volume is kept low and no advertising.  In this case I think they were throwing the Aussies a bone for something else.

Didn't they have to fulfill the rest of the agreement from when Pontiac/ G8 went under?



#30 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 01:04 PM

Didn't they have to fulfill the rest of the agreement from when Pontiac/ G8 went under?

 

jpd80 is the one who posted that info - it may have been to make up for the loss of the G8.



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#31 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 04:17 PM

The SS was restricted to high series cars to limit the numbers to be delivered but with a G8 type line up,

it's not hard to see how that trckle would have become 1,500-2,000 a month or double Elizabeth's output ,

can't have that if you want to close down plants...

 

One final point,

GM Shanghai developed Omega using the LWB Zeta as a starting point while, my sources tell me that

Holden engineering did similar with evolving a future car off the shorter wheelbase Zeta Commodore

and that Elizabeth was also prepped for GM layer build techniques....



#32 OFFLINE   630land

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 01:40 PM

On I-294, Chicagoland, is patrolled mostly by Taurus cop cars.

 

But why the SS didn't sell, is it competes with restored "classic" Chevy RWD V8's.

The fans say "bring it here", then only buy pickups or SUV's.



#33 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 01:48 PM

On I-294, Chicagoland, is patrolled mostly by Taurus cop cars.

 

But why the SS didn't sell, is it competes with restored "classic" Chevy RWD V8's.

The fans say "bring it here", then only buy pickups or SUV's.

The whole Zeta project was an absolute fiasco of on again, off again switches back and forth.

 

Holden was encouraged to make its platform and cars bigger and heavier than it needed to

include provison for a Travese sized SUV replacement. After thatw as set in stone, GMNA

began backing away from every car opportunity it offered Holden, the only tow it couldn't

cancel were Pontiac G8, and Camaro. The Caprice LEV and Chevrolet SS were consolation

prizes for Gm renegging on the prize Impala plum in 2008.

 

In hindsight, GM could have agreed to Zeta and built Caprice, Impala and Camaro, then added

Buick equivalents, maybe evolved CTS and DTS to Zeta as well... done the whole product cycle

and now be moving onto something else.

 

Gotta love dysfunctional GM, Zeta should have replaced Sigma, Alpha and evolved into Omega.

This was like going from LA to SFO via NY, totally  unnecessary and waste of funding on cars

that turned out to be low volume anyway..


Edited by jpd80, 29 January 2017 - 01:51 PM.

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#34 OFFLINE   Fgts

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 03:56 AM

The whole Zeta project was an absolute fiasco of on again, off again switches back and forth.
 
Holden was encouraged to make its platform and cars bigger and heavier than it needed to
include provison for a Travese sized SUV replacement. After thatw as set in stone, GMNA
began backing away from every car opportunity it offered Holden, the only tow it couldn't
cancel were Pontiac G8, and Camaro. The Caprice LEV and Chevrolet SS were consolation
prizes for Gm renegging on the prize Impala plum in 2008.
 
In hindsight, GM could have agreed to Zeta and built Caprice, Impala and Camaro, then added
Buick equivalents, maybe evolved CTS and DTS to Zeta as well... done the whole product cycle
and now be moving onto something else.
 
Gotta love dysfunctional GM, Zeta should have replaced Sigma, Alpha and evolved into Omega.
This was like going from LA to SFO via NY, totally  unnecessary and waste of funding on cars
that turned out to be low volume anyway..


That sums it up. Originally had GM wised up in 1999-00 and allowed Oldsmobile, Buick and Holden to use Sigma when they requested it instead of "Cadillac exclusive" it would had been less program problems. Eventually Chevy even Pontiac woulda received Sigma. It isn't people don't want a mass market rwd otherwise no Charger or 300 would be on sale.
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#35 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:51 AM

That sums it up. Originally had GM wised up in 1999-00 and allowed Oldsmobile, Buick and Holden to use Sigma when they requested it instead of "Cadillac exclusive" it would had been less program problems. Eventually Chevy even Pontiac woulda received Sigma. It isn't people don't want a mass market rwd otherwise no Charger or 300 would be on sale.

Sigma was actually begun by Holden as a replacement for the aging V-Car but the requirements expressed by Cadillac

actually made the cabin too small for the Commodore and Caprice, so Holden handed that project over to GMNA and

began Zeta for itself. Interestingly, Holden's Alpha was basically a narrowed Zeta, maybe why GMNA was terrified of weight.



#36 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 05:25 AM

The whole Zeta project was an absolute fiasco of on again, off again switches back and forth.
 
Holden was encouraged to make its platform and cars bigger and heavier than it needed to
include provison for a Travese sized SUV replacement. After thatw as set in stone, GMNA
began backing away from every car opportunity it offered Holden, the only tow it couldn't
cancel were Pontiac G8, and Camaro. The Caprice LEV and Chevrolet SS were consolation
prizes for Gm renegging on the prize Impala plum in 2008.
 
In hindsight, GM could have agreed to Zeta and built Caprice, Impala and Camaro, then added
Buick equivalents, maybe evolved CTS and DTS to Zeta as well... done the whole product cycle
and now be moving onto something else.
 
Gotta love dysfunctional GM, Zeta should have replaced Sigma, Alpha and evolved into Omega.
This was like going from LA to SFO via NY, totally  unnecessary and waste of funding on cars
that turned out to be low volume anyway..

Wasn't that whole mess brought on and managed by Bob Lutz?

What? What happened?


#37 OFFLINE   bzcat

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 01:45 PM

Wasn't that whole mess brought on and managed by Bob Lutz?

 

Bob Lutz came on the scene after the Sigma cake was baked for Cadillac, but he was responsible for the reverse course of bring Zeta to the US after the initial decision had been made for NA and AUS to go separate ways.



#38 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 03:48 AM

Wasn't that whole mess brought on and managed by Bob Lutz?

Lutz was definitely in Holden's corner, I can imagine that in his position with product development, that he would have

pushing every opportunity for the roll out of what he saw as GM's affordable global RWD. The crazy part was that Zeta

was benched over fears of not meeting fuel economy targets even though GM had no toer replacement in sight,

preferring to continue with FWD impala - V6 for V6  G8 and Impala were roughly the same weight and  fuel economy.

 

The whole thing was a mess, GM overt hought the situation and double backed on itself so many times.

In another reality we would have seen mustang, Falcon, Fairlane and Territory all merge under Ford's

proposed global RWD...I'm sure. that would have been a strange and surreal product line up to some.


Edited by jpd80, 01 February 2017 - 03:48 AM.


#39 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 01:19 PM

I saw my first NJSP PIU Monday...guess they are getting them instead of the Caprice


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#40 OFFLINE   92LX302

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 02:35 PM

If they didn't see this coming, shame on them.

 

I'm sure Ford will make sure the equipment can be transferred.   I thought they did that with the current one vs. the CV?

 

Yep. That's why we have a Taurus Interceptor with a foot high halogen light bar.


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