Jump to content

Custom Search





Coming Up Next:
Lincoln Continental • Lincoln Aviator


Welcome to Blue Oval Forums


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to Blue Oval Forums.  You must first register to create topics and post replies. Registration is a quick and easy process and only takes a minute.  Be apart of Blue Oval Forums by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images
  • Use the Shout feature and more. . .
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

The EPA Will Accuse Fiat Chrysler Of Using Software That Allowed Excess Diesel Pollution: Report


  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   630land

630land

    Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,291 posts
  • Joined 17-November 02
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • Location:DuPage Co. IL
  • Current Vehicle:Focus Hatch

Posted 12 January 2017 - 02:47 PM

No "full line of Dodge RWD cars, including coupes/convertibles" [from Alfas] coming to "shake up the market".









Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.


#22 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

RichardJensen

    Does whatever a SpiderPig does

  • Moderator
  • 35,267 posts
  • Joined 02-September 04
  • Location:Sioux Falls, SD
  • Current Vehicle:2000 Mercury Sable

Posted 12 January 2017 - 02:47 PM

 

No I'm quite serious.  This was done last minute for a reason, it will be undone.

 

Sure. And smug assumptions about Trump have proven to be oh so accurate thus far, haven't they?


  • silvrsvt likes this

photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#23 OFFLINE   630land

630land

    Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,291 posts
  • Joined 17-November 02
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • Location:DuPage Co. IL
  • Current Vehicle:Focus Hatch

Posted 12 January 2017 - 02:49 PM

If GM is "forced" to merge, they will keep Jeep and junk the rest. But they'll wait till it's a fire sale price.

 

Maybe big trucks will go to Nissan or ?


Edited by 630land, 12 January 2017 - 02:51 PM.


#24 OFFLINE   BORG

BORG

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,149 posts
  • Joined 19-September 99
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:None
  • Current Vehicle:None

Posted 12 January 2017 - 03:01 PM

 

Sure. And smug assumptions about Trump have proven to be oh so accurate thus far, haven't they?

 

 

I'm not being smug, EPA is moving toward pro-busiess leadership under Trump rather than pro-envrionemntalism and regulation.  FCA really has nothing to worry about and I think the celebrating in here is kinda silly.  I think you'll see a dramatic shift away from regulation under the new administration especially since the entire EPA staff and their researchers are leaving for the private sector.  They simply won't have the capability to run the agency from a research and envrionmental activism perspective.  The rest will be up to the states and corporate governance.  I think the primary goal of the EPA going forward will be to ensure energy independence and stability so completely dismantling it won't make sense from a stability perspective, but the environmental aspects will largely be reduced, especially those that target reduced consumption or increased expenses.


Edited by BORG, 12 January 2017 - 03:09 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

fuzzymoomoo

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,420 posts
  • Joined 18-February 14
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Southeast Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Focus, 2015 Focus

Posted 12 January 2017 - 03:04 PM

Even if the new EPA head backs off regulations, you can't do it retroactively. This isn't going away that easily.

What? What happened?


#26 OFFLINE   rmc523

rmc523

    Blue Oval Fanatic

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,687 posts
  • Joined 07-July 07
  • Location:Ft. Lauderdale, FL
  • Current Vehicle:2009 Flex Limited w/ AWD

Posted 12 January 2017 - 03:09 PM

I'm having a hard time believing that the outgoing administration would go out of its way to hurt FCA just to put Trump on the spot. The bailout and its prevention of both GM and Chrysler going out of business were heavily touted during the 2012 presidential campaign.

 

At any rate, this doesn't mean that Chrysler is going to vanish completely. The pickup truck, minivan and Jeep segments of the company would still be attractive to another car company. If, for example, Hyundai gets them for cheap, it becomes a full-line manufacturer in the U.S., right up there with GM, Ford and Toyota.

 

I don't have a hard time believing they would do that.  But that's the last political-related comment I'll make.

 

No, I don't think any of us mean that all the FCA brands will disappear, just that FCA in its current form will cease to exist, and it very well may mean there will be some casualties as part of it (Chrysler as a brand and Dodge, namely), with the rest of it being sold off.  I imagine the Agnelli family would rather dump the American brands in order to retain ownership of their brands and use the proceeds to pay for the damages that could come from this announcement.


Car of the Day:

 

2018 Lincoln Navigator L Black Label

 

k2NSDNS.jpg


#27 OFFLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 25,506 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Alpharetta, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Fusion Ti (Ruby Red)

Posted 12 January 2017 - 03:37 PM

I have no doubt that EPA regulations might be relaxed going forward, but I do not for one minute believe they would allow a mfr to cheat on emissions testing and do nothing about it.


  • grbeck likes this

2013 Fusion Titanium (Ruby Red)
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)

#28 OFFLINE   PREMiERdrum

PREMiERdrum

    Smartass Blogger

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,758 posts
  • Joined 13-May 07
  • Location:Metro Columbus, OH
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Fusion SEL Sport

Posted 12 January 2017 - 04:23 PM

I have no doubt that EPA regulations might be relaxed going forward, but I do not for one minute believe they would allow a mfr to cheat on emissions testing and do nothing about it.


...especially in the immediate aftermath of the severe punishment handed down to VW.

PREMiERdrum is an official Disney Travel Agent! Contact me here: http://www.facebook....ciergevacations

 

 

Current Vehicles:

2008 Ford Fusion SEL Sport, Redfire ("Foxy II") [HIS]
2010 Ford Escape XLT V6, Sterling Gray ("Essie") [HERS]

Past Rides: (Mine)
'96 Contour GL, '00 Focus ZTS, '00 Expedition Eddie Bauer, '01 Focus ZX3, '03 Mazda Tribute, '06 Explorer, '08 Focus
Past Rides: (Wife)
'98 Civic LX, '04 Mustang V6 Coupe (Competition Orange), '06 Mustang V6 Coupe (Legend Lime), '08 Mustang V6 Convertible (Black, Warriors in Pink edition)


#29 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

RichardJensen

    Does whatever a SpiderPig does

  • Moderator
  • 35,267 posts
  • Joined 02-September 04
  • Location:Sioux Falls, SD
  • Current Vehicle:2000 Mercury Sable

Posted 12 January 2017 - 04:33 PM

 

 

I'm not being smug.

 

You need to buy a dictionary. And I AM being smug.

 

And as has been pointed out above: we're not talking about relaxing CAFE requirements going forward, we're talking about lying to the government. That's lese majeste, and if you think the view of that is going to get soft-pedaled going forward................


Edited by RichardJensen, 12 January 2017 - 04:34 PM.

photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#30 OFFLINE   Bryan1

Bryan1

    Blue Oval Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 575 posts
  • Joined 19-September 10
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:Decline

Posted 12 January 2017 - 06:25 PM

 

G1HBFKp.png


Edited by Bryan1, 12 January 2017 - 11:04 PM.


#31 ONLINE   jpd80

jpd80

    Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,569 posts
  • Joined 02-June 04
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:My Happy Place
  • Current Vehicle:Falcon 302 V8

Posted 12 January 2017 - 06:36 PM

It sounds like this has been going on for months with lots of back and forth,

so I doubt that this is a last minute decision at all and to the contrary,

I suspect the EPA has been wanting to resolve this rather than prosecute.



#32 OFFLINE   Anthony

Anthony

    Voice of reason

  • Moderator
  • 5,161 posts
  • Joined 08-May 01
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • Location:CT
  • Current Vehicle:2014 Focus Hatch

Posted 12 January 2017 - 07:17 PM

Nice write up by Jalopnik of all places on how this differs from the VW incindent. http://jalo.ps/A1DzqQh

Edited by Anthony, 12 January 2017 - 07:17 PM.


#33 ONLINE   jpd80

jpd80

    Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,569 posts
  • Joined 02-June 04
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:My Happy Place
  • Current Vehicle:Falcon 302 V8

Posted 12 January 2017 - 08:01 PM

Still, the EPA is asking FCA to explain itself regarding the use of auxiliary emission control devices (also software),

switching these off and on is only permitted if there is a legitimate reason to do so. he fact that FCA failed to notify

the EPA that it was using so many "strategies" in addition to the main program  is what's at bottom of this, FCA still

needed to have the EPA approve and sign them off as acceptable.

 

VW was asked repeatedly to explain itself, just as FCA has been asked to explain these workaround strategies.

If FCA cannot sustain those arguments and make the science stick, they could be facing public  embarrassment.


Edited by jpd80, 12 January 2017 - 08:05 PM.


#34 OFFLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 25,506 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Alpharetta, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Fusion Ti (Ruby Red)

Posted 12 January 2017 - 08:40 PM

Nice write up by Jalopnik of all places on how this differs from the VW incindent. http://jalo.ps/A1DzqQh


The differences are semantics if you ask me. It seems they're in violation of the defeat device law since it clearly references normal reasonable operating conditions so they're not just limited to the EPA test procedure parameters.
  • jpd80 likes this

2013 Fusion Titanium (Ruby Red)
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)

#35 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

RichardJensen

    Does whatever a SpiderPig does

  • Moderator
  • 35,267 posts
  • Joined 02-September 04
  • Location:Sioux Falls, SD
  • Current Vehicle:2000 Mercury Sable

Posted 13 January 2017 - 01:43 AM

I think there's some difference here.

 

The Jalopnik article does a good job explaining what's being alleged here, but here's what you've got:

 

Unlike the VW system, the software in the FCA devices isn't prima facie illegal.

 

However, there are two aspects to this that are, in combination, very suspicious:

 

Software that 1) triggers during 'normal' operating conditions and 2) was not disclosed to the EPA.

 

That certainly looks like an attempt to conceal--evidence of a guilty mind.

 

On the one hand, the very existence of the VW software was sufficient to violate the law; on the other, FCA has a very very tenuous argument that what they did was legal--but it certainly doesn't smell right.


Edited by RichardJensen, 13 January 2017 - 01:45 AM.

photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#36 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

fuzzymoomoo

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,420 posts
  • Joined 18-February 14
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Southeast Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Focus, 2015 Focus

Posted 13 January 2017 - 02:00 AM

Detroit Free Press has a similar article to Jalopnik

http://www.freep.com...andal/96508140/

What? What happened?


#37 ONLINE   jpd80

jpd80

    Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,569 posts
  • Joined 02-June 04
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:My Happy Place
  • Current Vehicle:Falcon 302 V8

Posted 13 January 2017 - 06:21 AM

EPA and FCA have been back and forth with this issue for the past year,  it's clear that

the EPA  still hasn't received a satisfactory exploitation - that has to be ringing alarm bells.

 

Say what you like about semantics, FCA has been given plenty of time to explain this

and give full technical details and any supporting data to prove their case, the fact that

the EPA has lost patience could be due to a time limit placed on FCA to put up or get fined.



#38 OFFLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 25,506 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Alpharetta, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Fusion Ti (Ruby Red)

Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:08 AM

Software that 1) triggers during 'normal' operating conditions and 2) was not disclosed to the EPA.

 

and 3) cannot be sufficiently explained as to why it was done (in the context of normal operating conditions)



2013 Fusion Titanium (Ruby Red)
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)

#39 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

RichardJensen

    Does whatever a SpiderPig does

  • Moderator
  • 35,267 posts
  • Joined 02-September 04
  • Location:Sioux Falls, SD
  • Current Vehicle:2000 Mercury Sable

Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:34 AM

the EPA has lost patience

 

I think that's a fair characterization. I'm sure they were told that they had one more chance to explain their actions to the satisfaction of the gov't, and didn't.


photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#40 OFFLINE   blwnsmoke

blwnsmoke

    Blue Oval Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 818 posts
  • Joined 01-May 07

Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:53 AM

So what are the chances that...

 

 

"FCA Confirms Grand Wagoneer & Pickup with $1b in Plant Retools to add 2k jobs in US"

 

 

 

has been put on hold lol.










Custom Search


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy Terms of Service ·