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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Hellcat Topping Demon Set to Be Revealed at NY Auto Show


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81 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   tbone

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 04:40 PM

Maybe FCA will add electrification or hybrid technology to enhance Hellcat's performance and efficiency? That's the future of ultra powerful cars. Mr. Demon will meet Reddy Kilowatt. The sparks coming out of Reddy's head look kind of demon like, haha.  :)
 
Otherwise, this new Hellcat topping car seems pointless.
 
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That thing is scary!







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#42 OFFLINE   Mad Hatter

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 06:44 PM

 

That thing is scary!

We have a version of Willie Wiredhand, here.

 

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#43 OFFLINE   BORG

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:53 PM

Your conclusion is based on the Contour. And nothing else.


Like most bullies on the internet, you're pretty good at attacking when somebody corrects you.

#44 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:16 AM

Like most bullies on the internet, you're pretty good at attacking when somebody corrects you.


Oh please. You post incorrect and exaggerated crap every day so don't play the passive aggressive victim thing when you get called on it.
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#45 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 01:34 AM

Like most bullies on the internet, you're pretty good at attacking when somebody corrects you.

 

Discounting overlaps for products that were being phased out, over the past FIFTY YEARS, gaps in coverage in red.

 

SUBCOMPACT

Fiesta > (10 year lag, give or take) > Festiva > Aspire (10 year lag, give or take) > Fiesta

 

COMPACT

Pinto > Escort > Focus

 

COMPACT/MIDSIZE

Falcon > Maverick > Fairmont > Tempo > Contour (six year lag) > Fusion

 

MIDSIZE/FULL SIZE

Fairlane > Torino > Elite > Granada > LTD > Taurus > Five Hundred/Taurus

 

FULL SIZE

Full Size (LTD/Galaxie/XL) > Crown Victoria (discontinued)

 

LINCOLN

 

Continental > Town Car > MKS > Continental

 

Versailles > Continental > LS > Zephyr/MKZ

 

Any number of coupes have been discontinued (Mark series, Thunderbirds, two door variants of midsize & full size sedans)

 

So, the 'chaotic' Ford sedan lineup has consisted of, well, a huge gap in the subcompact segment, and a six year lag in which the Taurus was the only car between the "C" and "E" segments.


Edited by RichardJensen, 14 January 2017 - 01:40 AM.

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#46 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 01:35 AM

So I guess, I was wrong, Borg, your conclusion was based on the Contour and the Fiesta.


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#47 OFFLINE   atomcat68

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:48 PM

This is getting mind numbing. The difference between Ford and FCA is that FCA discontinued EVERY sedan up to full size with no plans whatsoever for replacement despite strict fuel economy standards and no back up plan in case consumer taste shifts. Out of the two full sized sedans, one is likely to be discontinued leaving their "mainstream" brand with only a minivan to sell and the other sedan is still pretty up in the air due to the fact they change their product planing on a weekly basis.

 

 

 

 

FCA has nothing in the pipeline to fill that gap between subcompact to full sized. And the full sized sedan market is the smallest and shrinking by the largest margin in the market place.


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#48 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 01:25 AM

so in relation to this thread, the criticism is that FCA is launching a more powerful car

instead of focusing on its problems..Is that it in a nutshell?

 

Frankly, I doubt that Sergio has left any funds spare for Chrysler or Dodge  do anything more than specials.

Fiat raped the crap out of Chryslers coffers and we wonder why North American operations are folding up....


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#49 OFFLINE   Fgts

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 12:34 AM


 
 
"the full sized sedan market is the smallest and shrinking by the largest margin in the market place".



On a side note one reason a car market shrink is that nobody invest in said market as seen with small trucks. Look what Continental is doing after MKS flopped, Lacrosse and Impala sales are picking up after the model switch over and the fleet model was cancelled.

#50 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 03:23 AM

On a side note one reason a car market shrink is that nobody invest in said market as seen with small trucks. Look what Continental is doing after MKS flopped, Lacrosse and Impala sales are picking up after the model switch over and the fleet model was cancelled.

That's not really  backed up by GM's 2016 sales figures

 

LaCrosse

2015.....42,035

2016.....27,582  (-34.4%)

 

Impala

2015.....116,825

2016......97,006  (-17.0%)

 

Granted, fleet sales have reduced with ending of Limited Impala but evidence is there

that after ending the fleet only Limited, GM is now selling into daily rentals, jsut not as much.

 

While cars and in particular large cars have their place, they are quickly becoming a niche product.

They can survive if those mostly retail  buyer needs are met and suitable prices charged.

 

The receding large car market is not caused by lack of investment, it's because buyers are less interested

that car makers feel less inclined to invest  anything more than token refreshes, the main action is now utilities.


Edited by jpd80, 16 January 2017 - 03:26 AM.


#51 OFFLINE   probowler

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 03:45 AM

Can you imagine 10 years ago telling people that by 2020, Cars would be on the verge of extinction?


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#52 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 08:41 AM

 

Discounting overlaps for products that were being phased out, over the past FIFTY YEARS, gaps in coverage in red.

 

SUBCOMPACT

Fiesta > (10 year lag, give or take) > Festiva > Aspire (10 year lag, give or take) > Fiesta

 

COMPACT

Pinto > Escort > Focus

 

COMPACT/MIDSIZE

Falcon > Maverick > Fairmont > Tempo > Contour (six year lag) > Fusion

 

MIDSIZE/FULL SIZE

Fairlane > Torino > Elite > Granada > LTD > Taurus > Five Hundred/Taurus

 

FULL SIZE

Full Size (LTD/Galaxie/XL) > Crown Victoria (discontinued)

 

LINCOLN

 

Continental > Town Car > MKS > Continental

 

Versailles > Continental > LS > Zephyr/MKZ

 

Any number of coupes have been discontinued (Mark series, Thunderbirds, two door variants of midsize & full size sedans)

 

So, the 'chaotic' Ford sedan lineup has consisted of, well, a huge gap in the subcompact segment, and a six year lag in which the Taurus was the only car between the "C" and "E" segments.

 

 

Technically, the Contour was "replaced" by the Focus. The front interior room was identical. A true Midsized car didn't reappear till the Fusion came out. The Escort was considered a subcompact in the 1980s (replaced the Fiesta in 1982) and the Tempo was the compact car that the Focus is now. It doesn't help that we moved to the European class standards more or less in the past 10-15 years either...but then again B-sized cars are the same size or taller then most subcompacts/compacts of the 1980/90s.

 

Then again what Ford did back then is kind of similar to what is happening today...SUV/CUV's are hot, but at least they aren't ignoring their sedan offerings now. 


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#53 OFFLINE   atomcat68

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 10:06 AM

On a side note one reason a car market shrink is that nobody invest in said market as seen with small trucks. Look what Continental is doing after MKS flopped, Lacrosse and Impala sales are picking up after the model switch over and the fleet model was cancelled.

 

Luxury is a bit immune to that, but the current Impala was also an amazing car when it came out, but sales of it and all its non luxury bracket competition are trending down.


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#54 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 10:26 AM

Individual vehicle sales will fluctuate a lot, but the overall market should not decline simply as a result of neglect unless it's a segment that simply isn't profitable and all mfrs decide to exit for that reason.   E.g. if all it took to reclaim the small truck market was updated styling and features then at least one mfr would have done that.



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#55 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 11:31 AM

 

Technically, the Contour was "replaced" by the Focus. The front interior room was identical. A true Midsized car didn't reappear till the Fusion came out.

 

The Contour was legitimately intended to replace the Tempo, and the Focus was legitimately intended to replace the Escort. That the Focus had almost the same interior room as the Contour was an indication of how badly Ford botched the Contour.

 

Ford Europe, which led on the Contour, either didn't know or chose to ignore indications that the 'Tempo class' (Accord, Camry, Stanza) was going to increase in size dramatically in the early 90s. Comparison tests from the mid 90s show the Contour in that class.

 

The fact that Ford NA got lured into the 90s Detroit 'longer/lower/wider'/cab forward trend didn't help--the Taurus was too big & the Contour was too small to compete well with the new midsize segment.

 

In fairness, Ford Europe got the Focus very, very right.


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#56 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 11:37 AM

One should also remember that '70s vehicles were almost universally replaced by smaller vehicles in the early 80s.

 

The Escort was not a replacement for the Fiesta, as the Escort and Fiesta were sold side-by-side in Europe.

 

Going strictly by line by line size comparisons, e.g. Pinto/Maverick/Torino/LTD+Galaxie (1970) > Focus/Contour/Taurus/Crown Vic (2000) > Fiesta/Focus/Fusion/Taurus/Crown Vic (2010) > Fiesta/Focus/Fusion/Taurus (2016), you can see continuity more easily than by comparing sizes from one generation to the next.


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#57 OFFLINE   Anthony

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 11:48 AM

Don't forget the Ford Festiva and Aspire were sold next to the Escort as the truly "small" vehicle in the US during that time as well.  



#58 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 01:29 PM

Don't forget the Ford Festiva and Aspire were sold next to the Escort as the truly "small" vehicle in the US during that time as well.  

 

Exactly--the overall sedan hierarchy hasn't changed much from the mid 70s to present, but the sizes of the cars have and generational size shifts have created some awkward overlaps before.

 

The fox body Granada/Fairmont situation was almost as goofy as the Contour/Focus situation. The two cars had identical wheelbases, with the Fairmont being only 3" shorter and an inch narrower.


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#59 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 01:31 PM

 

The fact that Ford NA got lured into the 90s Detroit 'longer/lower/wider'/cab forward trend didn't help--the Taurus was too big & the Contour was too small to compete well with the new midsize segment.

 

 

 

The Taurus has always been "too big"...IIRC it was supposed to replace the Crown Vic in the 1980s. It was still be influenced by the downsizing trends that started in the mid to late 1970s


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1986 Escort GT Race Red
1998 Mustang GT Dark Green Satin
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2006 Mustang GT Tungsten Grey

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#60 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 02:07 PM

 

 

IIRC it was supposed to replace the Crown Vic in the 1980s.

 

Nope, it was a direct replacement for the LTD-Granada fox body cars. That was the plan from the get-go; Ford was pretty far behind the trend of moving midsize cars to a FWD layout (Chrysler's K-Cars and GM's A-bodies had been out for a few years by the time the Taurus came out).

 

'86 Taurus was 106/188 vs. 105.5/196.5 for the LTD


Edited by RichardJensen, 16 January 2017 - 02:08 PM.

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