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What is anti-American?


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#1 OFFLINE   tbone

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 12:49 AM

Since the topic which we were having this discussion got locked, I thought I would respond here.

My previous post in response to a post from Borg:
"This might be one of the dumbest posts you have made. If moving to Spain because you didn't like the outcome of an election isn't anti-American, I'm not sure what is. Explain to me how that shows love for one's country. That actually sounds like abandonment of one's country.

The American way would be to engage in the political process and bring a candidate to the table that the majority of Americans would want to vote for over the other party's candidate.

I don't recall anybody from the conservative side making rediculous statements about moving out of the country, throwing temper tantrums, protesting/rioting, because they didn't like the outcome of the last two elections, certainly not to the extent that we have seen in the last few days.

You accept it and move on to the next opportunity to affect change."

Borg's response to me:
"I'm pretty sure any Democrat is Anti-American to those on the right. My elderly Jewish Grandmother was once told by a White Supremacist that Jews were Anti-American because they vote liberal. It's really just code language at this point for the right so as soon as I hear it used like this, I know where that person stands politically. It's just a way of turning proud Americans into enemies if they don't support the right agenda, it's language that divides and destroys, never unifies or strengthens. The goal is to ultimately limit and define "America" under a specific right-leaning vision which to me is fascism and the very definition of "Anti American".

And see, I didn't have to call you dumb for voicing your opinion, this is America after all."


To be clear, I didn't call you personally dumb, I called your post dumb. It isn't a distinction without a difference; smart people say dumb things all the time.

You got me though, I'm a conservative and by your response, you must be a liberal. If not, my apologies.

I think it's fair to say that Obama was not well liked by conservatives, which isn't surprising since he did not engage conservatives in this positive dialogue that you speak of in any meaningful way over the course of his eight years as president.

Please refresh my memory of all these conservatives rioting and conducting acts of violence following Obama's two elections, or any elections for that matter, to have their voices heard. Unfortunately, you didn't address that previously.

Regarding First Amendment protected activity, I am well aware of the right to protest peaceably. By all means, have at it, but I wouldn't characterize all these protests as peaceful.

I'm still waiting on that language from the left that unifies or strengthens us, because I don't recall hearing any in this election cycle, unless stereotyping conservatives as deplorable is supposed to be positive. However, the last time I checked it was not.

As for suggesting that you didn't need to insult me to get your point across, one might think otherwise. Someone might construe your comment about white supremacist as a veiled insult that all conservatives must be white supremacist not to mention facist. Perhaps I'm wrong though because liberals only use language that unifies and strengthens.

I know my Mom who is a Democrat, and my lesbian cousin and her wife would disagree with your assessment of me.

Edited by tbone, 18 November 2016 - 12:50 AM.








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#2 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 11:20 AM

I doubt your going to get a response...Borg has been extremely passive aggressive the past couple weeks and never answers back/backs up on his general "stupidity" he's been posting. 


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#3 OFFLINE   Justdatdude

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 01:19 PM

When did he say moving to different countries was American? I recall him sayi g the protest are apart of our politcal process. It's not just liberals committing violent attack after this election but since you are conservative you are only acknowledge the opposing party.

I think you should check your own intelligence before trying to criticize someone else's especially when you mostly likely voted for Trump when he has new qualifications and didn't give concrete plans. You voted based on party and that is the dumbest thing anybody in 21 century could do. Are we all not independent thinking enough not to just go with whatever party we affiliate? Trump is just seriously stupid he thinks he stopped Ford from moving jobs to Mexico from "the Lincoln" plant when Louisville wasn't gonna lose jobs but probably pick up some because Escape production has been constrained by the Mkc. He might would have understood that had he not been ready to blow hot air out his big head.

I agree with Borg that most times the right is more devisive and thats what keeps this country stuck on sociopolitical issues. Also lets not forget that Republicans were not open to working with Obama like democrats have expressed that they would work with Trump barring he doesn't implement some of his campaign promises. Why do you think he had to use so many executive orders?

We as Americans have to accept elections no matter the outcome because it could be where we couldn't choose our leaders. I'm interested in how this will turn out as I think he will be the most liberal republican we've had.

#4 OFFLINE   tbone

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 01:59 PM

When did he say moving to different countries was American? I recall him sayi g the protest are apart of our politcal process. It's not just liberals committing violent attack after this election but since you are conservative you are only acknowledge the opposing party.

I think you should check your own intelligence before trying to criticize someone else's especially when you mostly likely voted for Trump when he has new qualifications and didn't give concrete plans. You voted based on party and that is the dumbest thing anybody in 21 century could do. Are we all not independent thinking enough not to just go with whatever party we affiliate? Trump is just seriously stupid he thinks he stopped Ford from moving jobs to Mexico from "the Lincoln" plant when Louisville wasn't gonna lose jobs but probably pick up some because Escape production has been constrained by the Mkc. He might would have understood that had he not been ready to blow hot air out his big head.

I agree with Borg that most times the right is more devisive and thats what keeps this country stuck on sociopolitical issues. Also lets not forget that Republicans were not open to working with Obama like democrats have expressed that they would work with Trump barring he doesn't implement some of his campaign promises. Why do you think he had to use so many executive orders?

We as Americans have to accept elections no matter the outcome because it could be where we couldn't choose our leaders. I'm interested in how this will turn out as I think he will be the most liberal republican we've had.


This was my original response to him after he commented on a post I made. Look up what preceeded it in Competing Products- GM cutting production at 2 plants:

"This might be one of the dumbest posts you have made. If moving to Spain because you didn't like the outcome of an election isn't anti-American, I'm not sure what is. Explain to me how that shows love for one's country. That actually sounds like abandonment of one's country.

The American way would be to engage in the political process and bring a candidate to the table that the majority of Americans would want to vote for over the other party's candidate.

I don't recall anybody from the conservative side making rediculous statements about moving out of the country, throwing temper tantrums, protesting/rioting, because they didn't like the outcome of the last two elections, certainly not to the extent that we have seen in the last few days.

You accept it and move on to the next opportunity to affect change."

You seriously believe the right is more devisive? I don't believe it was the right that has been labeling all the conservatives as racist and every other "ist" that you can think of.

Btw I'm a conservative not a Republican there is a difference. I care about the rule of law and good financial common sense, something most government officials don't seem to believe in.

#5 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 02:25 PM

I agree with Borg that most times the right is more devisive and thats what keeps this country stuck on sociopolitical issues. Also lets not forget that Republicans were not open to working with Obama like democrats have expressed that they would work with Trump barring he doesn't implement some of his campaign promises. Why do you think he had to use so many executive orders?

We as Americans have to accept elections no matter the outcome because it could be where we couldn't choose our leaders. I'm interested in how this will turn out as I think he will be the most liberal republican we've had.

 

The problem is that neither side wants to work with one another...what Obama was trying to do was force certain agendas that the democrats had instead of trying to find a middle ground that would placate both sides...but of course neither one of them believes in that. The President doesn't set laws...thats what the congress and house are supposed to do.

 

Trump was a democrat before he decided to run for President....the general GOP is as lost as the Democrats are...or they wouldn't have let him win the nomination.


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#6 OFFLINE   tbone

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 02:56 PM

 
The problem is that neither side wants to work with one another...what Obama was trying to do was force certain agendas that the democrats had instead of trying to find a middle ground that would placate both sides...but of course neither one of them believes in that. The President doesn't set laws...thats what the congress and house are supposed to do.
 
Trump was a democrat before he decided to run for President....the general GOP is as lost as the Democrats are...or they wouldn't have let him win the nomination.

I agree, the the answer or solution is usually somewhere in the middle. Neither side is really looking to work together, which is unfortunate.

Edited by tbone, 18 November 2016 - 02:56 PM.


#7 OFFLINE   transitman

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 12:38 PM

What's Anti-American is someone telling another person how the think or what their doing is wrong just because they don't agree. The only exceptions are criminal acts and personal or emotional harm to another person.


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#8 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 12:50 PM

What's Anti-American is someone telling another person how the think or what their doing is wrong just because they don't agree. The only exceptions are criminal acts and personal or emotional harm to another person.

I am personally and/or emotionally harmed by this



;)

What? What happened?


#9 OFFLINE   transitman

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 07:33 PM

I am personally and/or emotionally harmed by this



;)

I was physically harmed.

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#10 OFFLINE   tbone

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 11:23 PM

What's Anti-American is someone telling another person how the think or what their doing is wrong just because they don't agree. The only exceptions are criminal acts and personal or emotional harm to another person.


Realy?

This was my response to a post about Amy Schumer and others leaving the United States following the election:

"She can leave. I don't need people that make rediculous statements when things don't go the way they think it should. It was completely lame and anti-American."

So this all started when Borg suggested that it was inappropriate for me to opine about Schumer's comments being anti-American, that it was like the misuse of racism and Hitler.

So perhaps you should have read what led up to this point before you passed judgement on me.

#11 OFFLINE   transitman

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 08:40 AM

I started reading and it sounded like nonsense. I wasn't passing judgement on anyone, I was expressing MY opinion on the general topic of what one aspect of being anti-American means to me, not accepting the views of others. No one can can control how someone thinks or feels and how they treat other people, until it becomes criminal, but it bothers me when someone tells me I'm wrong just because I don't share their viewpoint. I accept what someone believes as theirs and I expect the courtesy of them to accept mine then move on, but I reject when someone tries to aggressively cram their beliefs down my throat. Just because I do something differently, doesn't make it wrong, it makes it different. I could cares less what Amy Shumer, Alec Baldwin, Rosi O'Donnell or any other celebrity with an opinion and a platform thinks, and that goes for Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, Mike Huckabee or anyone else on the right with an opinion and a platform, and that's all their views are, opinions. If you're going to post on a forum, any forum, expect responses you don't agree with, or responses that take the conversation in another direction. If your point is solid and you don't have to angrily defend it, that's great, but don't let thin skin cloud your point.


Edited by transitman, 20 November 2016 - 08:46 AM.

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#12 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 09:30 AM

America is built on the principle of open elections and participating in that process. Leaving the country just because your candidate didn't win means you don't believe in that process. And that's as anti-American as you can get. It has nothing to do with parties or personal beliefs. Of course everyone has a right to do that if they want and we have the right to criticize them for doing it.

It's the equivalent of taking your ball and going home because you don't get your way. It's childish.
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#13 OFFLINE   4d4evr-1

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 11:08 AM

Ted Nugent said that if Obama won in 2012 he was going to shoot him, was that unAmerican?


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#14 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 12:19 PM

Ted Nugent said that if Obama won in 2012 he was going to shoot him, was that unAmerican?


Yes. It isn't a partisan thing. Conservatives can be just as bad.

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#15 OFFLINE   tbone

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 01:45 PM

Yes it was, most definitely. There is no excuse for that rhetoric.

#16 OFFLINE   tbone

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 02:10 PM

Borg, Transitman, 4d4evr, we are not enemies just because we might have a different opinion than the other, however my opinion was challenged so I believe I had a right to defend it. Perhaps I could have used better choice of words to do so, I hey that.

But this forum demonstrates that people of differing backgrounds can have common interests, and lumping everyone into groups, making assumptions about people, etc., can have a negative impact on society.

I am not a right wing extremist, and I presume you are not a left wing extremist as well. As I mentioned in another thread the solution is usually somewhere in the middle if people can be intellectually honest and can have an open dialogue about varoused matters.

Nothing will change in the foreseable future if we can't get past this us against them mentality.

I work to combat extremism, literally not figuratively, and I can assure you that there are equally as many groups on each side of the spectrum. Neither side is really in a position to cast stones.








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