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Guest Message by DevFuse

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New Ford 7.0 L....?


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307 replies to this topic

#301 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 01:18 PM

How big could the 6.7 scorpion block go?

 

Wouldn't it be overkill for a gas engine? Especially when it comes to the weight?


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Ford Products owned though the years:
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1998 Mustang GT Dark Green Satin
2002 SVT Focus Satin Silver
2006 Mustang GT Tungsten Grey

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#302 OFFLINE   Sevensecondsuv

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:03 PM

Interesting discussion on gas engines for class 4/5/6/7 commercial trucks.  Ford use to use the Lincoln Y block in their commercial trucks.  I think they were 279, 302 and 332 cubic inches. These were replaced by the Ford Super Duty 401, 477 and 534 V8 gas engines.  Many of these were replaced by the Ford FT series, which was a heavy duty truck version of the FE series on the class 6 and low end of the class 7.  I think these were  a 391, 361 cubic inches V8's.
 
I think the thing sparking interest in gas engine in class 4 thru 6 is alternative fuels like propane and LPG.  But again as someone else has said, anything that happens has to be justified financially which is very difficult to do when you are talking about 165,000 units for the entire industry for class 6 and 7.
 
Yes the 6.2 archetecture at a manufacturing plant level could reach up to 7 liters and even to about 470 cubic inches (7.7 liters) if the cylinder block is redesigned to have about a 10" deck height and CGI is used for the block material instead of grey iron. Will Ford do both a 7.0 liter and a 7.7 liter?  I guess we need to waite and see.
 
Edselford


That's where I was thinking they could add two cylinders to the 7.0, making a 8.8L V10. To me, it sounds like an easier way to get a big bump in displacement without co-producing a significantly taller deck block with different internals since they already have the design knowledge and manufacturing line for a V10.
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#303 OFFLINE   Sevensecondsuv

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:05 PM

 
Wouldn't it be overkill for a gas engine? Especially when it comes to the weight?

Biggest problem I see with the Scorpion is that it's set up for reverse flow heads, which make no sense on a naturally aspirated engine.

Edited by Sevensecondsuv, 24 April 2017 - 06:05 PM.


#304 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:54 PM

That's where I was thinking they could add two cylinders to the 7.0, making a 8.8L V10. To me, it sounds like an easier way to get a big bump in displacement without co-producing a significantly taller deck block with different internals since they already have the design knowledge and manufacturing line for a V10.

And like the 5;4 / 6.8, those engines could be built n the same plant with machinery that could

switch between producing the two. A serious consideration when producing lower volume engines.

 

With stronger crank and pins, the bigger engines may avoid the cracking problems that plagued

the early simpler V10 plan that used shared crank pins and didn't require a balance shaft.



#305 OFFLINE   NLPRacing

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:55 AM

Biggest problem I see with the Scorpion is that it's set up for reverse flow heads, which make no sense on a naturally aspirated engine.

 

You could design an all new gas engine with new heads, induction, etc. and still use the Scorpion block.  Not sure if that would make sense or not.  How much does a bare Scorpion engine block casting weigh compared to a 6.2 block?  


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#306 OFFLINE   twintornados

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:06 AM

If I remember correctly, the 6.7L Scorpion block is made from compacted graphite iron, so it should be light enough and strong enough to make the cut.


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#307 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 12:50 PM

If I remember correctly, the 6.7L Scorpion block is made from compacted graphite iron, so it should be light enough and strong enough to make the cut.

 

Did some digging...the 6.7 is 160lbs lighter then the 6.4L diesel, but weighs in at 1100lbs with oil

 

For comparison, the V-10 only weighs 620lbs or so. 


"Hell, there are no rules here-- we're trying to accomplish something."
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Ford Products owned though the years:
1986 Escort GT Race Red
1998 Mustang GT Dark Green Satin
2002 SVT Focus Satin Silver
2006 Mustang GT Tungsten Grey

2010 Escape XLT AWD Sport Blue
2013 Taurus SHO Ruby Red

2017 Escape SE AWD Platinum White

Future Fords:
2021 Bronco

20xx Mustang GT350 or the like

 

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#308 ONLINE   fordmantpw

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:12 PM

 

Did some digging...the 6.7 is 160lbs lighter then the 6.4L diesel, but weighs in at 1100lbs with oil

 

For comparison, the V-10 only weighs 620lbs or so. 

 

The installed weight of the 6.7L is about 700 lbs more than the 6.2L.  But, you have to keep in mind there is a lot of extra stuff on the 6.7L, including:

 

  • More fluids: I think it's around 50 lbs or more just in fluids
  • Extra radiator (I don't think the 6.2L has a dual cooling system)
  • Turbo and associated plumbing
  • Intercooler
  • Diesel Particulate Filter
  • Diesel Oxidation Catalyst
  • Diesel Exhaust Fluid tank, fluid (7+ gallons so 60 lbs), injector, piper, heater, etc.

 

I'm sure there are other things as well.


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