jpd80 Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 The Tacoma was completely redesigned for 2016. Tacoma is not a complete redesign,just a heavy evolution on the existing platform, you're not going to see a new dedicated platform while Toyota maintains Hilux for its global markets. My sense has always been that small/mid-size truck sales waned because nobody made a quality product. No product = no sales. The Ranger was essentially the same truck for decades! Name any product that stays the same that long and maintains sales. Also, t's absurd to think the bottom of the truck segment starts at the F150/1500 Silverado level. Every other segment, cars, SUVs, Crossovers, has a much broader offering for the consumers. Now, manufacturers are building good products in the mid-size range and they are selling. I'll be interested in seeing how the Chevy Colorado ZR2 sells once its released. Definitely ups the cool factor. That's not the reason. Mid Sized trucks actually owe their resurgence to the increasing popularity of large trucks, the higher entry point price has opened up a nice niche below the half tons where crew cab mid sized trucks can reside and flourish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRM Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Tacoma is not a complete redesign,just a heavy evolution on the existing platform, you're not going to see a new dedicated platform while Toyota maintains Hilux for its global markets. That's not the reason. Mid Sized trucks actually owe their resurgence to the increasing popularity of large trucks, the higher entry point price has opened up a nice niche below the half tons where crew cab mid sized trucks can reside and flourish. Other than a new engine, new transmission, new interior, new exterior, and a new frame it was just like the 2015... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Remember, there is a new Wrangler next year. That will be the one to beat, not the current one. Given the core market of the Wrangler...I often wonder how far they can go with improving it to make it more comfortable without alienating that market. Ford doesn't have that problem with the Bronco...my biggest concern for the Bronco is the size its going to be. I think Ford is going for the more adult/refined 4x4 with the Bronco. 4 door Wrangler is 184.4 inches long...a Ford Everest (which I'm assuming is being used as the basis for the Bronco) is 192.6 inches long. But then again this is BOF and chopping 8-10 inches off the overall size shouldn't be hard to do. If they keep around the size of the Edge (188 inches..also happens to be the length of the Mustang also)...sign me up for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Other than a new engine, new transmission, new interior, new exterior, and a new frame it was just like the 2015... That's what he said. Heavily modified, not 100% new. 2015 F150/ 2017 Super Duty are 100% new. 2011 S. Duty was not new because it had the same cab as the 1999, even if the door skins were not identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 That's what he said. Heavily modified, not 100% new. 2015 F150/ 2017 Super Duty are 100% new. 2011 S. Duty was not new because it had the same cab as the 1999, even if the door skins were not identical. I think the cab was overhauled for 2016 Tacoma. In terms of carryover stuff in 2016 Tacoma compared to the previous generation, they are the 2.7L four cylinder engine, 5-speed manual transmission, and plastic composite material for the bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) They look like they might be slightly different, but until now, I thought the cab was a carryover. Edited November 7, 2016 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) Correct, you guys haven't seen many vehicles evolve over a 20-30 year span, it is possible to make a new vhicle out of an existing one when and if the manufacturer decides the parts or processes have changed / evolved enough to justify that. The other side of the puzzle is Hilux in ROW markets, Toyota has two parallel mid sized truck programs, it makes sense to heavily upgrade both existing platforms for now. What we should be asking is why Toyota still has two truck programs on different platforms and not combine all into one new program. Edited November 8, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Correct, you guys haven't seen many vehicles evolve over a 20-30 year span, it is possible to make a new vhicle out of an existing one when and if the manufacturer decides the parts or processes have changed / evolved enough to justify that. The other side of the puzzle is Hilux in ROW markets, Toyota has two parallel mid sized truck programs, it makes sense to heavily upgrade both existing platforms for now. What we should be asking is why Toyota still has two truck programs on different platforms and not combine all into one new program. Nissan too... We are still hanging on the old Navara while you guys have the new one. I think it is just a case of incumbency... Toyota USA is already invested in the Tacoma platform and the assembly line tooling. There is no upside for them to switch to the new midsize Hilux. At some point, the Tacoma platform will have to be replaced, and that's why Toyota will probably consider combining the two again now that Hilux is the same size as Tacoma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Nissan too... We are still hanging on the old Navara while you guys have the new one. I think it is just a case of incumbency... Toyota USA is already invested in the Tacoma platform and the assembly line tooling. There is no upside for them to switch to the new midsize Hilux. At some point, the Tacoma platform will have to be replaced, and that's why Toyota will probably consider combining the two again now that Hilux is the same size as Tacoma. Name recognition might have something to do it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I would go as far as to say that next gen Tacoma and Hilux will be the same vehicle or closer than they are today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) The Wrangler has a very long wheelbase relative to the body length (116" vs 112" on the larger Everest), there isn't anything else quite like it which creates that unique rock crawler look with the wheels pushed far ahead of the engine. Edited November 11, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I've had the "Joy" of spending some time in a Hilux, it's basic as fuck. I think the new ones have an aux input. I'm sure the American version would be a lot better, but I don't think I would even look at one to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Here's the current Toyota Hilux, Australia spec: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 See, what's happening is that Hilux is perfect for all those European and ROW markets because it's evolution has been optimized towards EU standards which are spread across a lot of countries as the default global standard while Tacoma is on Prado/Landcruiser 120 platform and much more North American-centric. Emissions and crash protection standards are the main differentiation as well as socio-economic buying trends. Hilux still appears to be a work vehicles but as with most in this segment appear to be drifting more towards 4x4 Crew cab with diesel efficiency. Even Europe is embracing these types of vehicles more than ever, probably due to the rise in SUV/Utility sales there. I'm definitely thinking that we will see a merged vehicle in the future, the opportunity is to great to ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) Name recognition might have something to do it too. I wasn't suggest a name change. Just an eventual merging of platform for Hilux and Tacoma because there is no longer a meaningful size difference. The original reason why Toyota separated the two was because US market demanded a much larger, beefier, and more capable truck. And so the markets are locked into these two separate trucks as long as one side has legacy tooling/production. The analogy that I can think of is Honda Accord... remember when Honda separated the Accord into two different models? One normal size for rest of the world and one gonzo size for the US? And then 3 generations later, they merged back into one single model because the rest of the world "caught up" with the US. Same thing as Hilux and Tacoma. Edited November 12, 2016 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Exactly so, the genesis of the Ranger in Nth America and ROW is an example how market needs converge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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