tbone Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Intetesting article. I didn't relize they were selling nearly 180,000 Tacomas per year. http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2016/10/14/toyota-tacoma-is-unstoppable-sales-force.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 The other midsize pickup trucks in the U.S. market are doing quite well, too. One guy from AutoPacific said earlier this year the whole midsize pickup truck category is "smoking hot". Interesting that Toyota's study found that truly compact pickups aren't appealing to Americans. I guess you could say the current crop of midsize pickups are "just right" for a lot of retail consumers: not too small , not too big. I look forward to what the midsize pickup market has in store 4 or 5 years from now when I'm ready to replace my '04 Ranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 The other midsize pickup trucks in the U.S. market are doing quite well, too. One guy from AutoPacific said earlier this year the whole midsize pickup truck category is "smoking hot". Interesting that Toyota's study found that truly compact pickups aren't appealing to Americans. I guess you could say the current crop of midsize pickups are "just right" for a lot of retail consumers: not too small , not too big. And that shows the crap Ford was pedaling about wanting a mid sized truck that was much smaller than T6 Ranger was completely in abeyance to the reality elsewhere in the mid sized truck market. That theory was merely a means to an end, a way of making Ranger redundant taking the savings and pressing on with F150. To be honest, if Ford had its time over, I'm betting it would have gone with the larger Ranger and made a ton of money off it at somewhere like MAP with Focus sent to Mexico where it belongs, it just took Ford a whole product cycle to realize this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Toyota did everything right - I don't like the Tacoma but the market loves it. Ford made a decision many years back on smaller trucks that turned out to be the wrong move. Now they are scrambling to be late to the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Toyota did everything right - I don't like the Tacoma but the market loves it. Ford made a decision many years back on smaller trucks that turned out to be the wrong move. Now they are scrambling to be late to the party. If they were scrambling, Ranger SOP would be a LOT sooner than nearly 2 years away.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Ford made a decision many years back on smaller trucks that turned out to be the wrong move. I don't think it was the wrong move back then. Remember the truck market was way down and the small truck market was WAY down. GM's move was risky but did paid off. Ford is playing it safe and waiting for MAP to become available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) I don't think it was the wrong move back then. Toyota and GM invested 'back then' and it turned out to be the right move. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This round to Toyota. Edited November 1, 2016 by Kev-Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Toyota and GM invested 'back then' and it turned out to be the right move. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This round to Toyota. Toyota hasn't invested anything in Tacoma the last 10 years. They just kept building them. And Tacoma was a much bigger part of Toyota truck sales then Ranger was a part of Ford truck sales. GM didn't invest in Colorado/Canyon back in 2008 either. That came later. It was a complete gamble but it paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRM Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The Tacoma was completely redesigned for 2016. My sense has always been that small/mid-size truck sales waned because nobody made a quality product. No product = no sales. The Ranger was essentially the same truck for decades! Name any product that stays the same that long and maintains sales. Also, t's absurd to think the bottom of the truck segment starts at the F150/1500 Silverado level. Every other segment, cars, SUVs, Crossovers, has a much broader offering for the consumers. Now, manufacturers are building good products in the mid-size range and they are selling. I'll be interested in seeing how the Chevy Colorado ZR2 sells once its released. Definitely ups the cool factor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 From 2005 through 2014 the "basically unchanged" Tacoma sales looked like this: 2005 168,831[40] 2006 178,351[41] 2007 173,238[citation needed] 2008 144,655[42] 2009 111,824[43] 2010 106,198[44] 2011 110,705[44] 2012 141,365[45] 2013 159,485[46] 2014 155,041[47] The fluctuated with the overall market decline but rebounded with essentially the same truck. So I disagree that sales waned because the products weren't updated. YTD the all new Tacoma is only 6.5% ahead of last year so a slight bump but nothing like you'd expect if the lack of an updated product was holding back sales of the old model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRM Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 You may be right, I don't know the answer. I really meant sales as a segment though. There wasn't much in the way of quality products and thus don't think it was considered. Now, with some products in the segment sales seem to be picking up. Respectable anyway. For the Taco, that is also a 6.5% increase on top of what GM and Honda have added to the segment. Ford has chosen to keep all its North American eggs in the F150 basket, time will tell if that was the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I agree the market is coming back, for whatever reason. Perhaps in part because newer full sized trucks are getting even bigger and more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdegrand Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 From 2005 through 2014 the "basically unchanged" Tacoma sales looked like this: 2005 168,831[40] 2006 178,351[41] 2007 173,238[citation needed] 2008 144,655[42] 2009 111,824[43] 2010 106,198[44] 2011 110,705[44] 2012 141,365[45] 2013 159,485[46] 2014 155,041[47] The fluctuated with the overall market decline but rebounded with essentially the same truck. So I disagree that sales waned because the products weren't updated. YTD the all new Tacoma is only 6.5% ahead of last year so a slight bump but nothing like you'd expect if the lack of an updated product was holding back sales of the old model. Also looked at the Chevy Colorado sales. Virtually the same monthly volumes for the past 8 months. Appears that market has hit its maximum. (9500-10500 units per month) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I think Ranger will add overall volume from diehard Ford fans - how much of that comes from F-series is a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Wonder if the Tacoma suffers from the same issues as the current HiLux. Visually, the Tacoma appears to have a very high center of gravity. http://www.themotorreport.com.au/64269/toyota-responds-to-hilux-moose-test-instability Edited November 2, 2016 by Kev-Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Wonder if the Tacoma suffers from the same issues as the current HiLux. Visually, the Tacoma appears to have a very high center of gravity. http://www.themotorreport.com.au/64269/toyota-responds-to-hilux-moose-test-instability The article is dated 10/31/2016 and at the bottom it states Ranger as also tested. What Ranger was used ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The article is dated 10/31/2016 and at the bottom it states Ranger as also tested. What Ranger was used ? The current one sold everywhere else but here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) I'm pretty sure Toyota would love to have Ford's F-Series business instead of Tundra and Tacoma. Ford has allot of manufacturing flexibility problems to deal with which I'm sure has hampered their decisions on some of these products, which probably get pushed further back when F-Series is their crown jewel and a Ranger represents a threat to that. Essentially Ranger probably wasn't coming back unless GM could show it worked, which they did in pretty spectacular fashion. Now that they've sorted out their longterm manufacturing plans, they have space to produce it and so it will come. Ford is often tardy but so is Apple Edited November 2, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Essentially Ranger probably wasn't coming back unless GM could show it worked, which they did in pretty spectacular fashion. Now that they've sorted out their longterm manufacturing plans, they have space to produce it and so it will come. Ford is often tardy but so is Apple Lots of hyperbole here The Colorado/Canyon sold about 114,507 units combined in 2015. The Ranger alone sold 70K in 2012 before it was discontinued. I wouldn't say that the GM mid-size pickup is setting the world on fire and only 115K units or so isn't really much to keep single plant busy (it does share the plant with GM's full sized vans) In relation, Ford has sold already 122K Transit vans and owns 57% of the Van market this year. Thats what Ford decided to focus on. Ford can keep MAP busy with the Ranger/Bronco and this supposed 3rd product its getting no problem. The Bronco/Ranger combo should be good for at least 200K units...if not more if the Bronco takes off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Colorado/Canyon alone outsell all of Lincoln on constrained capacity which they are expanding. So in reality they are doing far better than GM had planned. The Transit was a good product to focus on with new regulations threatening to end Ford's van business, but it's also picking up on a segment Ford was already in and very successful at, not to mention they already had a van facility so bringing it online wasn't a massive logistical problem. So Ford really is just holding onto something they already had instead of something they lost like Ranger. GM on the other hand had a weak van business so focusing on Midsize trucks turns out to grow their business just as well. But I do think Ford is in a better longterm position since they will have both Midsize and Van businesses before GM does. Ford has allot of very large gaps in its product range that is causing problems for them now since they aren't in growth segments and have been extremely slow to respond. I think the next goal for Ford is just to sort out it's core range of products and be able to respond more quickly. I know Ford isn't as incentivized to react because they have F-Series to absorb gaps while they slowly move the giant ship and pivot the business. The end of this decade can't come soon enough and hopefully they've made the right decisions (they've taken enough time to make them). Edited November 2, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Toyota Tundra is invisible in the big truck market. Also, GM has ancient full size vans. So, as someone else said, 'win some, lose some'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettenuts Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Having looked closely at the new Jeeps, a Bronco would do well I think if they incorporate some safety features that Jeep is lacking and keep the build quality high. I don't find that much is being done to improve Jeep, rather they seem to be just playing on past success with it. As for the smaller truck, I am waiting until its introduction prior to making any decisions on my next vehicle. One other point of interest is the baby boomers are retiring and a lot are buying motor homes (industry currently going gang busters). However, the number of vehicles that can be flat towed are shrinking. If the smaller truck and Bronco had flat tow capability, that would open another market segment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Having looked closely at the new Jeeps, a Bronco would do well I think if they incorporate some safety features that Jeep is lacking and keep the build quality high. I don't find that much is being done to improve Jeep, rather they seem to be just playing on past success with it. As for the smaller truck, I am waiting until its introduction prior to making any decisions on my next vehicle. One other point of interest is the baby boomers are retiring and a lot are buying motor homes (industry currently going gang busters). However, the number of vehicles that can be flat towed are shrinking. If the smaller truck and Bronco had flat tow capability, that would open another market segment. Basically a nicer Wrangler....I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) I think there is an opportunity to accomplish this, as my sister and brother-in-law have had three Jeep Wranglers and though I like them, they are not particularly ergonomically friendly. Edited November 4, 2016 by tbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Remember, there is a new Wrangler next year. That will be the one to beat, not the current one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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