MKX1960 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Should Ford be happy with Lincoln sales? http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/07/07/should-ford-motor-company-investors-be-happy-with.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Up is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Well if you ask LincolnLover, everything is garbage that nobody wants and Ford should shut it down 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Each new model is better than the last, new Utes are on the way and a new platform. Rebates aren't huge, ATPs are decent and they've done it all without spending billions on new platforms to this point. As an investor I'd be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) The cars are getting much better for sure. I am disappointed in the modest sales gains with all he new models, I think Lincoln crossovers should be performing better than they are relative to the size and growth of the segment dominated by others. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Continental and the new look, Lincoln is still a brand that lacks mass appeal and the Continental might change attitudes a bit. In either case, Lincoln is doing the right thing for its business and they are clearly making progress in every area of their business, but the Lincoln audience is still very small and that's going to remain a progressive struggle to fix. I definitely don't believe we'll ever see Lincoln as a global luxury marque so it's probably going to be a negligible business for the foreseeable future, but it's like Apple's Mac lineup, it's still important to the company even if it's not a significant sales or profit generator. Lincoln just has to cement itself as too important and stable to get rid of the next time Ford is faced with a leadership and economic crisis. Edited July 7, 2016 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) The cars are getting much better for sure. I am disappointed in the modest sales gains with all he new models, I think Lincoln crossovers should be performing better than they are relative to the size and growth of the segment dominated by others. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Continental and the new look, Lincoln is still a brand that lacks mass appeal and the Continental might change attitudes a bit. In either case, Lincoln is doing the right thing for its business and they are clearly making progress in every area of their business, but the Lincoln audience is still very small and that's going to remain a progressive struggle to fix. I definitely don't believe we'll ever see Lincoln as a global luxury marque so it's probably going to be a negligible business for the foreseeable future, but it's like Apple's Mac lineup, it's still important to the company even if it's not a significant sales or profit generator. Lincoln just has to cement itself as too important and stable to get rid of the next time Ford is faced with a leadership and economic crisis. I just keep remembering how poorly the Fusion did in its first generation and it "second" generation / serious MCE. It was a great car that could not outsell mediocre cars in the segment. All of this tipped around 2011 when following the buzz around Flex, Ford introduced the Fiesta, Focus, and Escape and then the new Fusion. By the time the "Gen 3" Fusion was released it garnered none of the cautious "could this Ford really be this good" damnation with faint praise and sales were surging. I have no doubt there will be a tipping point for Lincoln. At one point one of the rags will say "Lincoln has been quietly making wonderful cars" and others will follow into a chorus, and the sales will tip upwards. It's all about patience and staying the course right now. EDIT: Also yes, Ford should be happy with Lincoln. Calm, disciplined, steady. Audi, Lexus, and BMW are not where they are by being brash and twitchy at the gas pedal. (although I have serious misgivings about the germans' recent obsession with needless model proliferation; which come to think of it may represent just the opportunity Lincoln (and Cadillac) could exploit) Edited July 7, 2016 by igor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Eh, Caddilac is to busy trying to be German that they're never going to be able to exploit anything in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) I just keep remembering how poorly the Fusion did in its first generation and it "second" generation / serious MCE. It was a great car that could not outsell mediocre cars in the segment. All of this tipped around 2011 when following the buzz around Flex, Ford introduced the Fiesta, Focus, and Escape and then the new Fusion. By the time the "Gen 3" Fusion was released it garnered none of the cautious "could this Ford really be this good" damnation with faint praise and sales were surging. I have no doubt there will be a tipping point for Lincoln. At one point one of the rags will say "Lincoln has been quietly making wonderful cars" and others will follow into a chorus, and the sales will tip upwards. It's all about patience and staying the course right now. EDIT: Also yes, Ford should be happy with Lincoln. Calm, disciplined, steady. Audi, Lexus, and BMW are not where they are by being brash and twitchy at the gas pedal. (although I have serious misgivings about the germans' recent obsession with needless model proliferation; which come to think of it may represent just the opportunity Lincoln (and Cadillac) could exploit) I actually don't really see the analogy with Fusion here, Ford has historically dominated the segment so they already had an audience in waiting, they didn't need to convince that many people after the economic crisis to buy their stuff. We saw that with Explorer as well, the audience was there once the product got better. Lincoln doesn't have that same history or audience on tap to respond to new models so they have to very slowly convince entirely new customers which is allot harder and more expensive. I've long given up on the Lincoln tipping point, it's clear it will simply take many years of small growth to stabilize their business and to focus on their core attributes and customers. But I do have confidence that Lincoln is getting it right this time, I just wished they looked less elderly. Edited July 8, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 How soon before Lincoln China outsells Lincoln USA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Ford could easily chase sales volume with bigger rebates but that would be counterproductive especially with some products being capacity constrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Each new model is better than the last, new Utes are on the way and a new platform. Rebates aren't huge, ATPs are decent and they've done it all without spending billions on new platforms to this point. As an investor I'd be happy. . I am.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Ford could easily chase sales volume with bigger rebates but that would be counterproductive especially with some products being capacity constrained. Ford is said to be in talks to build certain Lincolns in China, if it does that the sales could increase a lot quicker with local product on hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I have no doubt there will be a tipping point for Lincoln. At one point one of the rags will say "Lincoln has been quietly making wonderful cars" and others will follow into a chorus, and the sales will tip upwards. It's all about patience and staying the course right now. I think we're already starting to see that with the MKX. Reviews I've seen have been positive, and that can/should only continue with Continental and to a lesser extent the revised MKZ. Sales have been following as evidenced by increasing results the last two years, though not as quickly as most of us would like. But I agree with you too that with continued buzz generated especially by the new Continental and Navigator, interest in the brand - and therefore sales - should ideally start increasing more rapidly soon. As you also said, this is a long term plan that requires patience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) Or if you ask LincolnLover, they need to cancel everything right now and start over from scratch using unique dedicated platforms. +GRWD Edited July 8, 2016 by fuzzymoomoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 How soon before Lincoln China outsells Lincoln USA? They're on pace to be at least roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of US sales this year in the brand's second full year of sales, so it's quickly catching up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Or if you ask LincolnLover, they need to cancel everything right now and start over from scratch using unique dedicated platforms. +GRWD Well they should.....everything in the lineup sucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Or if you ask LincolnLover, they need to cancel everything right now and start over from scratch using unique dedicated platforms. +GRWD Stop poking the bear..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Stop poking the bear..... aww but it's fun! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 They're on pace to be at least roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of US sales this year in the brand's second full year of sales, so it's quickly catching up. easy business and F seems to be pumping the $$$$ to be sure all infrastructure is in place... it takes money to make money and F seems to be very intelligent is what and how they do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 I think we're already starting to see that with the MKX. Reviews I've seen have been positive, and that can/should only continue with Continental and to a lesser extent the revised MKZ. Sales have been following as evidenced by increasing results the last two years, though not as quickly as most of us would like. But I agree with you too that with continued buzz generated especially by the new Continental and Navigator, interest in the brand - and therefore sales - should ideally start increasing more rapidly soon. As you also said, this is a long term plan that requires patience. I would think the Continental and MKZ will be the one's getting attention this year. If MKX doesn't get any updates for 2017, those customers will wait until next year. Then, it will be MKX and Navigator in the spotlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 MKX, Navigator, and the Aviator concept ... it's incredible how much metal Lincoln is putting out these days. The "one model per year" scheme is working beautifully. Now they will have 1 MCE, 1 new model, and 2 concept to talk about each year. This year it's MKZ, Conti, and Navi. Next year MKC, Navi, Aviator Then MKX, Aviator, and ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 MKX, Navigator, and the Aviator concept ... it's incredible how much metal Lincoln is putting out these days. The "one model per year" scheme is working beautifully. Now they will have 1 MCE, 1 new model, and 2 concept to talk about each year. This year it's MKZ, Conti, and Navi. Next year MKC, Navi, Aviator Then MKX, Aviator, and ??? Is the Aviator a sure bet? I just got back from my Lincoln dealer and was asking the salesman about the 3.0 going into the 17 MKX. He didn't think they would do it and he mentioned the Aviator as more likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 the fact that Ford is now thinking of building Lincolns in China means that it has a lot of confidence in the depth of sales. With the estimated growth in dealers, Lincoln is going to need production locally in China sooner rather than later. So that may fuel quicker product cycle upgrades on the four main products, MKC, MKX MKZ and Continental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) Aviator in 2019/20 so I would probably put that at the far end of the schedule, there will be a new MKC and MKX MCE before Aviator. Each year gets some sort of major new product on the shelf. 2013-MKZ 2014-MKC 2015-MKX 2016-Continental 2017-Navigator 2018/19-MKC (All-New) 2019/20-Aviator Edited July 8, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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