fuzzymoomoo Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Via yahoo: https://www.yahoo.com/news/2016-buick-envision-suv-proves-disappointing-110010149.html :sad trombone: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 . Our Envision Premium with the optional moonroof, navigation, and Saffron red paint came to a whopping $45,380. That's easily $5,000 less than similarly-equipped German rivals—but this car isn't even remotely in the same league. We just don't see any compelling reason to choose the Envision over the aforementioned Ford Edge, the Kia Sorento, or the Nissan Murano. A super-loaded Edge Titanium costs less and is roomier, far more athletic, and quieter. The Murano is plusher inside and a Sorento packs a third-row seat into a tidy package. Hmmmmm, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermans Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 A 2016 Edge Ti loaded with all the options less the 20 inch wheels and the towing package comes to a about $200. more than $45,380. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Just say "no" to Chinese built cars... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 The Edge seems to have become the benchmark in this class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Even if it were the best driving vehicle on Earth, it is just..... so........ Bleh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Even if it were the best driving vehicle on Earth, it is just..... so........ Bleh. That's par for the course when it comes to almost the entire "crossover" vehicle category. But this category has been increasingly popular for reasons that remain mysterious to me, so GM probably figured it would be best to field a midsize crossover Buick sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) I can't stand Buick, from the way they look to the way they are designed, built, and managed. It's just a mess. Edited June 23, 2016 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) I can't stand Buick, from the way they look to the way they are designed, built, and managed. It's just a mess. The last two Buick concepts (that Caddy would never allow to get built) were pretty decent. The Regal and Castlevania (or whatever thier convertible is called) are pretty decent looking for rebadged Opels. The interiors are awful though. Edited June 23, 2016 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 This is too bad that it is so underwhelming as a new model, it certainly won't age well and this is not the kind of misstep one can afford in the most competitive market segment. It seems that it will be the Chrysler 200 of CUVs that will sell only on discounted prices. At least with the 200, it was selling to a diminishing segment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 What critics say ultimately has little effect on customers however, so it's up to them to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 They may have to lower prices considerably if it's really that far below the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) They may have to lower prices considerably if it's really that far below the competition. Yep... I wrote a while ago (can't find it now) that Buick's pricing strategy for Envision is a departure from other Buick models in the US and is going to backfire on them. They are selling a Ford Escape or Honda CR-V competitor for Audi Q5 or BMW X3 money. And CR is clearly calling them out on it. Edited June 23, 2016 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) I think it's more blatant than that and I suspect that GM tried to matchEither Lincoln MKC or MKX by supplying only a top trim Envision.The problem is that now buyers may view it with prejudiceconsidering the whole exercise as over priced. (Edited for grammar and spelling only) Edited June 24, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Average buyers now want something that "looks like a truck", and "high seating position" They do not care about handling, body lean, and curves. They also want room for all their 'stuff' and to be at same level of the fast food drive thru windows. In the snow belt, some are used for better traction, but they still "forget to drive" the first 1/2 inch snowfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Yep... I wrote a while ago (can't find it now) that Buick's pricing strategy for Envision is a departure from other Buick models in the US and is going to backfire on them. They are selling a Ford Escape or Honda CR-V competitor for Audi Q5 or BMW X3 money. And CR is clearly calling them out on it. And the conspiracy theory part of me, the 'wheels-within-wheels' part, thinks that GM really really really doesn't want SAIC to get any kind of foothold in the US market whatsoever, even if it's trojan-horse style through the Envision, thus this product is being setup to fail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) And the conspiracy theory part of me, the 'wheels-within-wheels' part, thinks that GM really really really doesn't want SAIC to get any kind of foothold in the US market whatsoever, even if it's trojan-horse style through the Envision, thus this product is being setup to fail. I never thought of it that way..... A bit like how GMNA restricted Holden Exports to the $44K SS..... again a high series only line that's around $14K dearer than the G8. Clearly, there's no place in GM's plans for a $30K V8 full sized sedan. Edited June 25, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) The SS could be $30k and give the driver a daily orgasm and it still would not sell. The Falcon, Monaro/GTO, Commodore/G8/SS, Statesman/Caprice all are a generation or two behind stylistically. Edited June 26, 2016 by sullynd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Average buyers now want something that "looks like a truck", and "high seating position" They do not care about handling, body lean, and curves. They also want room for all their 'stuff' and to be at same level of the fast food drive thru windows. In the snow belt, some are used for better traction, but they still "forget to drive" the first 1/2 inch snowfall. The funny thing about living in snow country is that the roads are taking care of pretty quickly, but the ride height is important to see over the snow piles that build up all winter long. I do think people want better ride height so an SUV that sits on the ground like a wagon is pretty dumb, but comfort and handling is certainly an important consideration. Envision makes no sense, just like Buick in the US. Edited June 26, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Envision makes no sense, just like Buick in the US. That's true. The whole concept of a "crossover" vehicle in general makes no sense. But there's currently a mania for this vehicle category, so I doubt GM will have trouble finding customers for Buick Envision in any market where it's sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 The whole concept of a "crossover" vehicle in general makes no sense. It makes perfect sense - you just don't like them. Utility of a station wagon with higher seats for better visibility and easier ingress/egress like a SUV but with a much more compliant ride with better handling and NVH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I doubt GM will have trouble finding customers for Buick Envision in any market where it's sold. The mania is for crossovers, not Buicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) It makes perfect sense - you just don't like them. Utility of a station wagon with higher seats for better visibility and easier ingress/egress like a SUV but with a much more compliant ride with better handling and NVH. To me, crossovers for the most part combine the least desirable aspects of SUVs (ungainly handling and even more ungainly styling) with the least desirable aspects of station wagons (limited towing and off road capabilities). What's worse, the current proliferation of crossovers has resulted in automotive OEMs devoting fewer resources to passenger cars, including station wagons. Jeff Sabatini of Car and Driver stated, "...we’ve had it with boring-looking, boring-driving slugs that squeeze interesting cars off the corporate product plan. Who will save the car from the crossover? It is up to you and me." In Buick's case, adding the "boring-looking, boring-driving" Envision to the brand's lineups in the U.S. and China is unfavorable to the possibility that the stunning Avista concept that debuted at NAIAS 2016 will make it into production as Buick's "halo" car. Edited June 27, 2016 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Styling is subjective and more people seem to prefer CUV styling to minivans, cars and station wagons. Handling is far from ungainly - it's pretty good on most models with the only detriment is it's top heavy. But it's so much better than BOF truck based SUVs. I get that you don't like resources being taken away from cars but you could say the same thing about trucks, vans and minivans. I understand that some prefer wagons and diesels and manual trannies. But that doesn't mean that CUVs are evil or stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 To me, crossovers for the most part combine the least desirable aspects of SUVs (ungainly handling and even more ungainly styling) with the least desirable aspects of station wagons (limited towing and off road capabilities). What's worse, the current proliferation of crossovers has resulted in automotive OEMs devoting fewer resources to passenger cars, including station wagons. Jeff Sabatini of Car and Driver stated, "...weve had it with boring-looking, boring-driving slugs that squeeze interesting cars off the corporate product plan. Who will save the car from the crossover? It is up to you and me." In Buick's case, adding the "boring-looking, boring-driving" Envision to the brand's lineups in the U.S. and China is unfavorable to the possibility that the stunning Avista concept that debuted at NAIAS 2016 will make it into production as Buick's "halo" car. The majority of buyers don't want station wagons. When they have recently been offered, they sell maybe hundreds of them a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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