silvrsvt Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford%E2%80%99s-crown-jewel-the-f-150-has-a-big-problem/ar-AAh6Xyb?ocid=sf The problem, though, is that some versions of the new F-150 still don’t meet the government’s 2016 emission and fuel-economy mandates. What’s more, the hurdles get higher from here: By 2025, the targets will be much more stringent. The stakes for Ford couldn’t be greater. Ford’s F-Series, America’s best-selling truck line, accounts for 31 percent of the company’s North American sales and half of its profit in the region, according to Barclays analyst Brian Johnson. Tempest in a teapot? Seems like this article is very short on details.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I read that article earlier and mostly dismissed it. I tend to agree with your tempest in a teapot thought. Isn't Ford the overall fuel economy leader in trucks? Wouldn't they be the one to point to as an example and not to point out as the one needing the improvements? Typical MSN article... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Ford is scrambling because about 40 percent of its new aluminum-body F-150s don’t comply with the 2016 mandates, according to Duleep. The four-wheel-drive, 3.5-liter SuperCab –- a high-volume variation -- falls 1 mile per gallon short and emits 15 grams of CO2 per mile more than allowed, he said. Now, I find this quite strange for several reasons... First, Super Crew, not Super Cab is the top selling version of F150 with over 70% of sales while Super cab makes up around 20% and single cab with around 10% Second, The thirstiest versions of F150 are the 4x4 Crew and Super cabs with the 5.0 V8 being even thirstier than the 3.5 EB Third For 2016, Ford also gave fuel economy figures of 4x4 Super crew set up for GVWR > 6799 lbs (2.7EB) and GVWR>7599 lbs (3.5EB & 5.0V8) Did Mr. Duleep just look at these and deduce that F150 had a problem? or did he actually heard somethingand got the story wrong or distorted? Certain details that don't seem to mesh with official figures. The version that is supposed to be out of spec for 2016 is the 4x4 SuperCab with 3.5 EB but to get to 40% of F150s, that would be all 3.5 EBs so something is not gelling here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 10 speed transmission coming for 2017 Diesel mules have been seen testing so that's coming soon Hybrid miles have been seem testing so that's also coming soon Nothing to see here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 10 speed transmission coming for 2017 Diesel mules have been seen testing so that's coming soon Hybrid miles have been seem testing so that's also coming soon Nothing to see here. That is another excellent point, not to mention that I'm sure Ford would change the product mix to favor the 2.7L vs the 3.5L Ecoboost and 5.0L V8 if they needed to 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Ford will handle this, but the upcoming standards are stiff, and do not quite line up with what the customers want to buy. At the worst, I see availability limits on some powertrains. Heavier vehicles will have a harder time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The problem, though, is that some versions of the new F-150 still don’t meet the government’s 2016 emission ,,, That is a very BOLD statement ! Without hard evidence, I just do not believe it. In Ford's case, heads will roll, because individuals actually sign off that a vehicle meets emission standards and contains no "defeat devices". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Does anyone at MSN know what the "A" in CAFE stands for? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 GM and FCA don't have this problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 GM and FCA don't have this problem? Thats the elephant in the room....but its popular to pick on the leader... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I wish a could make up a story based on fuzzy math and not fully understanding what I was writing about. Hilarious! 10 speed transmission next year and other things up there sleeve. I guarantee you Ford will not be caught with their pants down on this one. I could see RAM being SOL though, as throwing Hemi's in everything doesn't exactly make for great MPG's. They have little to no hybrid plans either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I wish a could make up a story based on fuzzy math and not fully understanding what I was writing about. Hilarious! 10 speed transmission next year and other things up there sleeve. I guarantee you Ford will not be caught with their pants down on this one. I could see RAM being SOL though, as throwing Hemi's in everything doesn't exactly make for great MPG's. They have little to no hybrid plans either. I believe this is why Serg pushed so hard for a sale. He probably knows he's trapped. No money and no way out of having to meet those tougher standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Hatter Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I believe this is why Serg pushed so hard for a sale. He probably knows he's trapped. No money and no way out of having to meet those tougher standards. I don't stay up on this like some here, but aren't the new FE standards based upon a formula favoring longer wheelbases? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The elephant in the room is official figures. The EB 3.5 4x4 F150 and 6ATdelivers better FE than the Silverado 6.2 4x4 with 8AT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Ford is pushing Dealers like crazy to order F-150's with the 2.7L EcoBoost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Ford is pushing Dealers like crazy to order F-150's with the 2.7L EcoBoost! Ah, now I see. What sales split are you actually seeing with engines, is it a lot different to Ford's quoted equal three way split for EB 3.5. EB 2.7 and 5.0 V8? Sounds like the interest in 2.7 EB has dissipated with low gas prices and now people are happy to pay a little more for 3.5 EB and 5.0 V8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Ah, now I see. What sales split are you actually seeing with engines, is it a lot different to Ford's quoted equal three way split for EB 3.5. EB 2.7 and 5.0 V8? Sounds like the interest in 2.7 EB has dissipated with low gas prices and now people are happy to pay a little more for 3.5 EB and 5.0 V8. The 2.7L EcoBoost is getting a large share of our sales due to the heavy mix of 2.7L's in stock. Ford's been limiting the 3.5L EB availability but the biggest problem is addressing customer's issues regarding the Stop/Start feature included with the 2.7L engine. Gas prices here (currently $2.43) aren't affecting F-150 sales or the desired engines. There's plenty of availability also of the 5.0L V-8's which is required in order to get the optional Snow Plow Prep package. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) "the biggest problem is addressing customer's issues regarding the Stop/Start feature included with the 2.7L engine. You mean whiny old farts that think their truck won't restart? The head Ford tech here in Brookings worked for me when I was Parts/ Service Manager in Flandreau. You want to piss him off just complain about a problem that hasn't happened yet. And don't complain it's too hard to hit the "OFF" button. Edited June 20, 2016 by MY93SHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) I had an F-150 Rental with Stop/Start and I always wanted to turn that feature off. The shutter when it restarts isn't pleasant and it cuts the A/C so it gets obnoxious quickly. I would hate to be stuck with that or be forced to disable it every time I started the car. The inconvenience is just not worth the tiny fuel gains. Edited June 20, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I had an F-150 Rental with Stop/Start and I always wanted to turn that feature off. The shutter when it restarts isn't pleasant and it cuts the A/C so it gets obnoxious quickly. I would hate to be stuck with that or be forced to disable it every time I started the car. The inconvenience is just not worth the tiny fuel gains. Thank you for confirming my suspicions. I was hoping the shuddering was unique to the GM system. Looks like my future cars won't have that feature, it makes my wife's motion sickness act up even when she's the one driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 This isn't a Ford issue. It's an industry issue. Most automakers are generating their profits from trucks, SUVs and CUVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Thank you for confirming my suspicions. I was hoping the shuddering was unique to the GM system. Looks like my future cars won't have that feature, it makes my wife's motion sickness act up even when she's the one driving. A short piece of 18ga. wire and 5 minutes of your time will keep it off permanently, because fuel and emissions regulations are going to make it standard equipment in the next decade or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Thank you for confirming my suspicions. I was hoping the shuddering was unique to the GM system. Looks like my future cars won't have that feature, it makes my wife's motion sickness act up even when she's the one driving. You next car will more that likely have that feature, and in a short time you won't be able to disable it. Automakers get CAFE credits for it, '17 model year is when it starts to get harder and harder. It is Std on '17 Escape with both Ecoboost engines, it is also Std on both ecoboosts for the 150's for '17 as well as the 2.0L in the MKC, FWD Edge, and 1.5L in the Fusion. Also come later in the decade most everything will be Hybrid in some from, with the 48V systems coming on line in the next few years stop/start will just be normal. The next C platform is going to be Fords big push into the 48V world. Also Stop/Start can vary with manufactures, the BMW system is very smooth with the I6 and V8, but rougher with the 4. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/24/ford-stop-start-all-major-models/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) I find I would drive to avoid activating stop-start, such as not fully stopping or constantly lifting my foot off the brake. The weird thing is that if you have the A/C on and make a full stop, it still shuts off and only the blower continues to work, but then it will restart anyway before you've lifted your foot off the brake. It's quite maddening in traffic, not such a big deal for regular stops, but a complete nuisance in the summer. I'm sure each generation will improve the tech, but right now I would certainly aim to avoid it...at least on F-150, it's possible the better engine isolation in other Ford vehicles will make it more tolerable. Edited June 20, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I would rather use pioneer's bypass or just pull the fuse for it than have it active all the time. I hate being told what I "need". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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