LincolnLover Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 When S550 was approved they didn't even know if they were going to keep Lincoln. Going forward I fully expect it to share the platform with other vehicles, probably at least one Lincoln. I see what you mean..... Why plan for other models, when there are no plans for other models.... With that said, 3 years ago they decided they would keep Lincoln, and if they put a team on a Mustang Lincoln, say for a MY 2018, that would give 4 solid years to design the interior and exterior, while only having to increase production of the Mustang's platform, and powertrain...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 How much of the $5 billion do we know or at least think went into developing the Continental? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 How much of the $5 billion do we know or at least think went into developing the Continental? That was a point in time figure that I'm sure has changed several times as their strategy evolves. I would guess $300M or so given it's a stretched tophat on an existing platform. But I think you're missing the point about Continental - it (and the new Taurus) were developed mainly for China, not North America. As for why a coupe is delayed - MKC, MKZ, MKX, Aviator and Continental are far more important to the bottom line than a 2 door coupe/convertible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 That was a point in time figure that I'm sure has changed several times as their strategy evolves. I would guess $300M or so given it's a stretched tophat on an existing platform. But I think you're missing the point about Continental - it (and the new Taurus) were developed mainly for China, not North America. As for why a coupe is delayed - MKC, MKZ, MKX, Aviator and Continental are far more important to the bottom line than a 2 door coupe/convertible. Yeah, I know.... They want to get the main portfolio set, but the problem I see is, they seem to be acting overworked, taking all this time and only releasing one redesign per year..... It seems like it never ends, and I hope with increased profits, that will change..... It's all about working capital, without it, they can't develop shit. With them spending a few or several million on the stretched top hat, just goes to show they can do the Mustang platform, but they refuse to, because they're afraid to invest in not a main seller, like they did with the LS. It wouldn't be another LS though, because they were copy parts from Jaguar, costing a ton for one model, this would in house, alas Continental....... Lets just hope Lincoln keeps it momentum and people keep buying, and we can get our RWD-biased Lincoln "LS" "MKR" "Lincstang" whatever you wanna call it..... Which brings me to, what do you think they would call it? A MK-shit, which I'm betting on, or a real name, which I'm hoping for..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 You're assuming all it takes is to spend a little more money - that's not the case. There is a finite set of resources available - people, design studios, etc. at any given time. The cost to increase that capacity would be huge and presumably that extra capacity would only be needed for a short time. You also have to consider manufacturing resources - expansion beyond a certain point requires new factories. GM invested billions in new platforms and new vehicles for Cadillac and they went bankrupt and even today they aren't seeing the volume they expected. So yes, Ford is being more cautious and more deliberate with Lincoln. It's a smart business move even if enthusiasts are impatient and think they should be doing more faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 You're assuming all it takes is to spend a little more money - that's not the case. There is a finite set of resources available - people, design studios, etc. at any given time. The cost to increase that capacity would be huge and presumably that extra capacity would only be needed for a short time. You also have to consider manufacturing resources - expansion beyond a certain point requires new factories. GM invested billions in new platforms and new vehicles for Cadillac and they went bankrupt and even today they aren't seeing the volume they expected. So yes, Ford is being more cautious and more deliberate with Lincoln. It's a smart business move even if enthusiasts are impatient and think they should be doing more faster. Akirby, Would you buy a Lincoln LS successor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Akirby, Would you buy a Lincoln LS successor? Probably not. We just bought a new Lincoln MKX. Wife prefers the high seating position and we use the cargo space (hauled home about 600 lbs of shrubs and small trees last night). I'm planning to get a mustang or boxster and a F150 at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) But that's the thing..... I'm not saying they should've went and gone bankrupt building a RWD brand back up with new great models.... I'm saying, they could've had the MKZ, Town Car, MKS, Navigator, MKX, Aviator, Mark LT and still went back to the drawing board, designing a non high cost build (think Mustang platform), coupe or small sedan, with a V8, which they had available, and put the Lincoln twist on it...... It really wouldn't have been a big blow to them.... I believe it would've helped keep Lincoln a big name around all the others, and in the minds of many...... I still believe a Mustang Lincoln should be built, it would be cost effective for Ford's The Way Forward. It's mind boggling to spend that much on the S550 to use on 1, that's one, 1 vehicle...... Very bad business if you ask me.... The whole point is to have a few platforms that share multiple vehicles..... Engines are different, as you can take a basic design and change it to go smaller or bigger. All you need is a few tranny's..... I guess the biggest problem for Ford is being able to afford all that, which just seems odd when they have extraordinary sales..... Ford has Falcon, Fairlane and territory staring them in the face yet they chose CD3 Mazda and D3 Volvo because Mulally was having none of global RWD plans because Nth America already had those platforms. Ford saved a boat load of money by reusing existing platforms and cancelling what it saw as duplicates. Edited April 28, 2016 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Of course they saved a boat load of money, that was the point of course...... Especially at the time of that decision, Lincoln was staring in the face of automotive death...... All I've ever said, was they should use the Mustang platform...... Would be cost effective to utilize a great platform, just as they chose to be cost effective with CD3, at that time, now CD4 even more so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Just would like to clarify something, that I think you guys have misunderstood.... I love the Lincoln "brand"..... I'm just expressing my desires for a return of Lincoln LS successor.... I'll tell ya what, I brought my mom's 2010 MKZ, think my mom's here, to our Lincoln dealer to get an extra key made as spare (lost the original spare) and I decided to walk around the lot while I was there in daylight, as I usually stop at night after a long day of working on our properties...... I really was happy that it wasn't extremely sunny, because I could see great in there. They were gorgeous! I really did like the new MKX the best, not a fan of the 13-16 MKZ, and the MKC is very nice also. The Navigator is the Navigator, it will always be a prestigious behemoth to me, my favorite vehicle ever, forever, only disappointed with no 5.0 with a tune....... MKS and MKT are them usual selves, very nice. Now, where I get very opinionated is, I would want more wood trim, in fact much more wood trim.... I think the MKX would be well complemented with a nice set of wood trim..... That's the main complaint, as I'd take any of the V6's in any of those vehicles, except the Navigator and Continental and LS successor.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Mustang is getting a new platform in 2020 which some of us think coincides with the new CD6 platform yielding a coupe/convertible, midsized sedan and midsized utilities all RWD and/or AWD for both Lincoln and Ford brands. Richard will tell you that you can't do that without compromising all of them so we'll see. Either way it's almost a certainty that Lincoln will get something on the mustang platform in the next 4-5 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Also worth noting that there's a rumor going around at FRAP that we will be getting a total of 5 cars at some point, at least 3 of which will be Lincolns. Obviously Continental is one, and MKZ is moving here from Mexico per that leaked report a few months ago. One of those cars was supposed to be the Taurus before that became China only. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Also worth noting that there's a rumor going around at FRAP that we will be getting a total of 5 cars at some point, at least 3 of which will be Lincolns. Obviously Continental is one, and MKZ is moving here from Mexico per that leaked report a few months ago. One of those cars was supposed to be the Taurus before that became China only. the Lincolns are obvious imho but can't for the life of me figure out the 2nd "non-Lincoln" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 the Lincolns are obvious imho but can't for the life of me figure out the 2nd "non-Lincoln" At the time when it first popped up it was assumed we would still be building the Fusion. Since then we stopped and it doesn't look like it will be coming back any time soon, if ever. I personally think it will be Mustang, Continental, MKZ, and Lincstang. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 What a minute, do you mean an additional total of 5 vehicles, in addition to the Mustang and Fusion now? Or total, total for the whole plant? If it's the first, I'd say Mustang, Fusion, Lincstang, Continental, MKZ, and I'm sure a Taurus replacement, as the Fusion can't do both roles, mid and full size, even though the Fusion is big..... A CD4 Taurus replacement, unless Fusion straddles it until like 2018 MY and for 2019 MY there will be the first CD6 vehicle in the form of a Taurus replacement.... I don't know though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 At the time when it first popped up it was assumed we would still be building the Fusion. Since then we stopped and it doesn't look like it will be coming back any time soon, if ever. I personally think it will be Mustang, Continental, MKZ, and Lincstang. Where would that new Lincoln sedan be made? The one that's either bigger or smaller than Conti? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Oh I missed one..... I don't know..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) What a minute, do you mean an additional total of 5 vehicles, in addition to the Mustang and Fusion now? Or total, total for the whole plant? If it's the first, I'd say Mustang, Fusion, Lincstang, Continental, MKZ, and I'm sure a Taurus replacement, as the Fusion can't do both roles, mid and full size, even though the Fusion is big..... A CD4 Taurus replacement, unless Fusion straddles it until like 2018 MY and for 2019 MY there will be the first CD6 vehicle in the form of a Taurus replacement.... I don't know though.....Fusion is no longer built at FRAP, and is likely not coming back barring some crazy scenario coming to fruition. The CD4 Taurus is now China only, and will not be coming to North America. The rumor was 5 total vehicles built here. Bear in mind, this came around shortly before Christmas and hasn't really been around since. Edited April 29, 2016 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Where would that new Lincoln sedan be made? The one that's either bigger or smaller than Conti? Are we sure that's even a thing? Smaller would be redundant because of MKZ. Unless they're outright replacing it with something all new. Bigger seems very unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) Are we sure that's even a thing? Smaller would be redundant because of MKZ. Unless they're outright replacing it with something all new. Bigger seems very unlikely.Well, maybe it's RWD with MKZ staying FWD, a la Lexus ES and IS? Originally, I'd have just said it was the Conti replacement, but I think it and the Conti code overlapped in the timeline, which pointed away from that theory. Alternatively, maybe it's a 4-door coupe-esque product? But I'm just grasping at straws at that point. Edited April 29, 2016 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Well, maybe it's RWD with MKZ staying FWD, a la Lexus ES and IS? Originally, I'd have just said it was the Conti replacement, but I think it and the Conti code overlapped in the timeline, which pointed away from that theory. It may seem unlikely as of late, but the LS and Zephyr overlapped..... I'd hope it's a somewhat sub, but not too small, MKZ model on the Mustang platform...... With how everything's going, I can't see a larger car than the Conti being helpful to the brand, anymore than a Lincstang anyways.... I think they get the youngsters motivated with the brand with a Lincstang, and I believe that.... I'm a youngster, and it's my dream to see a new coupe/sedan RWD with hopefully something more unique as an option than having to pick from an all ecoboost lineup.... Like a 5.0TT V8, if it's still around by then, or just a 5.0 with the modern tech updates that would create even better MPG and power. In a car that size, they should be able to make the right chemistry for it to all work out, as it's essentially a Mustang, but a Lincoln with a premium, and a great pedigree..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Fusion is no longer built at FRAP, and is likely not coming back barring some crazy scenario coming to fruition. The CD4 Taurus is now China only, and will not be coming to North America. The rumor was 5 total vehicles built here. Bear in mind, this came around shortly before Christmas and hasn't really been around since. Oh yeah, they switched out the Fusion and MKZ.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Oh yeah, they switched out the Fusion and MKZ.... Well, not exactly. MKZ hasn't made its way here. If that leaked production schedule is accurate, MKZ doesn't land here until 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Well then, Mustang, Continental, MKZ, Lincstang, and a new Ford full size sedan.... There ya go! ? Who wants to make wagers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) I expect a cd6 based sedan for both Ford and Lincoln. For Ford it would essentially replace Taurus as a low volume high MSRP performance sedan while Fusion stays fwd high volume. the Lincoln version may or may not replace MKZ. So MKZ, thunderbird, conti, stang and lincstang while explorer/aviator are built elsewhere, all on CD6 variants. Edited April 30, 2016 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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