Deanh Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Flexs numbers are reflective of why theres no Taurus's because they are focused on Explorers....the Edge is getting pushed, and the Flex is built in the same plant, and although the Flex sells reasonably well in So Cal...its numbers PALE when looked at nation wide. And the trans issues with foci and Feists get addressed for the 17 model... Edited October 2, 2015 by Deanh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02MustangGT Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Mustang sales nearly tripled. 2015 Mustang production started at the end of August 2014; resulting in pathetic September 2014 sales numbers. However ~10k Mustangs sold in Sept 2015 is fantastic. Don't get caught up in the year over year increases though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 2015 Mustang production started at the end of August 2014; resulting in pathetic September 2014 sales numbers. However ~10k Mustangs sold in Sept 2015 is fantastic. Don't get caught up in the year over year increases though. Yeah, I had forgotten how bad last September was. For some reason I thought the model changeover happened earlier last year. For comparison's sake, Camaro sales are relatively flat YOY (+2.2%) even though the new model will be here next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Again, how bad can this get until the Focus is replaced in another 3 years. I repeat what I said earlier, an 8 year gap between Redesigns is a recipe for disaster. The real problem is the troublesome automatic transmission used in the Focus and Fiesta. My brother-in-law bought a slightly used first-year Fiesta, and traded it within two years, because "the transmission was failing." I never got to drive it, so I don't know if the transmission was really failing, or whether the real problem was the unusual characteristics of that transmission. I do know that he really did not like that car, and the transmission was the main reason why. It wasn't because of any anti-Ford or anti-American vehicle bias, as his other vehicles at the time were a 2010 Ford F-150 and 2008 Jeep Wrangler. Edited October 5, 2015 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The real problem is the troublesome automatic transmission used in the Focus and Fiesta. My brother-in-law bought a slightly used first-year Fiesta, and traded it within two years, because "the transmission was failing." I never got to drive it, so I don't know if the transmission was really failing, or whether the real problem was the unusual characteristics of that transmission. I do know that he really did not like that car, and the transmission was the main reason why. It wasn't because of any anti-Ford or anti-American vehicle bias, as his other vehicles at the time were a 2010 Ford F-150 and 2008 Jeep Wrangler. I agree. If you look at any car review site like cars.com and look at the reviews, the Focus and Fiesta are among the lowest scoring cars in reliability scores and among the least liked cars. That transmission damaged those cars reputation which is a shame because the 2008-2011 strange styled "FrankenFocus" was so well liked and scored very high on durability. Ford dropped the ball big time with this! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Some of those complaints though are just that it "feels" different, not that all were actually defective. This was corrected to a certain degree with software updates. There are still quite a few with actual failures, my daughter's 2012 included. If it wasn't for the 100K warranty I'd probably be ditching it soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Some of those complaints though are just that it "feels" different, not that all were actually defective. This was corrected to a certain degree with software updates. There are still quite a few with actual failures, my daughter's 2012 included. If it wasn't for the 100K warranty I'd probably be ditching it soon.I took a trip to Cleveland for a wedding this weekend, and took the opportunity to rent a Focus to see what all the hubbub was about with the transmission. Now, I'm not sure which powertrain it had, but it was a new 2015 model with 18,000 miles on it. In cruising around town, it wasn't bad, but where I noticed what I assume is the shudder everyone talks about is upon acceleration from a stop. You'd push on the gas, and (for a lack of a better way to explain it) power would almost sort of fluctuate very quickly for a few seconds and then that would stop and would function normally. I can definitely see why people would be turned off by that. I mean I didn't like it. If I hadn't known what it was, I would've thought something was wrong with the thing. It's sad that they've had so many problems with it (real and/or perceived) that'll lead to people being turned off to the Focus. I'm surprised they didn't move to change it in the refresh. Edited October 5, 2015 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I took a trip to Cleveland for a wedding this weekend, and took the opportunity to rent a Focus to see what all the hubbub was about with the transmission. Now, I'm not sure which powertrain it had, but it was a new 2015 model with 18,000 miles on it. In cruising around town, it wasn't bad, but where I noticed what I assume is the shudder everyone talks about is upon acceleration from a stop. You'd push on the gas, and (for a lack of a better way to explain it) power would almost sort of fluctuate very quickly for a few seconds and then that would stop and would function normally. I can definitely see why people would be turned off by that. I mean I didn't like it. If I hadn't known what it was, I would've thought something was wrong with the thing. It's sad that they've had so many problems with it (real and/or perceived) that'll lead to people being turned off to the Focus. I'm surprised they didn't move to change it in the refresh. Not sure if that's the same shudder as the defective ones. The rental Fiesta I had was really bad on takeoff up to about 20 mph. It was like taking off in a manual with poor clutch control - really jerking a lot. Also I think the new ones have an improved seal that reduces the failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Not sure if that's the same shudder as the defective ones. The rental Fiesta I had was really bad on takeoff up to about 20 mph. It was like taking off in a manual with poor clutch control - really jerking a lot. Also I think the new ones have an improved seal that reduces the failures. I mean it was the same - about up to 20mph. Not sure I'd describe it as " a lot," but it still was evident, and if it's like this ok a relatively new vehicle, what will it be like down the road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I mean it was the same - about up to 20mph. Not sure I'd describe it as " a lot," but it still was evident, and if it's like this ok a relatively new vehicle, what will it be like down the road? Could very well be the first stages of failure. Initially it just seemed to be driveability complaints but now it's clear this is a flawed tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Could very well be the first stages of failure. Initially it just seemed to be driveability complaints but now it's clear this is a flawed tranny. Which is a shame, as the rest of the car is very attractive. The styling of the current Focus is, in my opinion, very attractive - the best in its class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 It's drivability in my opinion, not trans'es disintegrating, like some Brand X's. Ford is coming out with updates and not saying 'too bad, get a new car'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 It's drivability in my opinion, not trans'es disintegrating, like some Brand X's. Ford is coming out with updates and not saying 'too bad, get a new car'. Nope - the seals are leaking destroying the clutches. It does require replacement. That's why they extended the warranty to 100K miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Some of those complaints though are just that it "feels" different Of course, in a market this competitive, that's a real problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Rule 101 in sales and marketing, listen to your buyers and respond to their needs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Of course, in a market this competitive, that's a real problem. I'd say it's a minor problem. People say the same thing about a CVT (I actually drove a Sentra rental car with the CVT and did not like the way it "felt" under acceleration, but overall it was fine) but Nissan and Honda are selling the crap out of them. The shuddering, failures and failure of the TCM (had that one replaced already) are a much bigger problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Nissan and Honda are selling the crap out of them. Honda has a bit more brand equity to squander on a transmission that is tolerated but not appreciated, in the same way that BMW's truly horrible iDrive interface didn't really stall the sales of BMW products. However, pull crap like that too often and you start to build up a reservoir of ill-will that will eventually burst the dam, and people will stop buying your products with almost religious fervor (cf American cars, once Japanese models right-sized for this market, record labels after napster, print advertising, and beginning recently, cable TV subscribers) Ford doesn't really have the equity that will let them put a transmission that "nobody" likes in the Focus & Fiesta w/o paying for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Nope - the seals are leaking destroying the clutches. It does require replacement. That's why they extended the warranty to 100K miles. Trans oil on the clutch won’t necessary destroy it, but it will greatly affect drivability. That’s the shudder you feel, the clutch is engaging roughly. And note that I own a ’12 Focus with a DCT (still with the original seals and clutches). As an aside, trans oil on a clutch isn’t something new. I drag-raced back in the 60’s and can tell you that the clutch on a ’67 Mustang will chatter like crazy if there’s gear oil on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Honda has a bit more brand equity to squander on a transmission that is tolerated but not appreciated, in the same way that BMW's truly horrible iDrive interface didn't really stall the sales of BMW products. However, pull crap like that too often and you start to build up a reservoir of ill-will that will eventually burst the dam, and people will stop buying your products with almost religious fervor (cf American cars, once Japanese models right-sized for this market, record labels after napster, print advertising, and beginning recently, cable TV subscribers) Ford doesn't really have the equity that will let them put a transmission that "nobody" likes in the Focus & Fiesta w/o paying for it. Not disagreeing with your larger point, but the reviews I've read have rated the Honda CVT as superior to the Nissan CVT in overall operation and refinement. The CVT used in the four-cylinder Accord, in particular, has gotten good reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Not disagreeing with your larger point, but the reviews I've read have rated the Honda CVT as superior to the Nissan CVT in overall operation and refinement. The CVT used in the four-cylinder Accord, in particular, has gotten good reviews. Exactly. Honda's CVT seems to rival traditional autos in refinement and feel. I've seen nothing negative about it. If Ford could pull that off with a new CVT I think it would be fine. If they can't then I agree with Richard that it wouldn't work well in a Focus or Fiesta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Exactly. Honda's CVT seems to rival traditional autos in refinement and feel. I've seen nothing negative about it. If Ford could pull that off with a new CVT I think it would be fine. If they can't then I agree with Richard that it wouldn't work well in a Focus or Fiesta. You think they'd try it again though, after the Five Hundred/Montego/Freestyle? They ran away quick from it last decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 You think they'd try it again though, after the Five Hundred/Montego/Freestyle? They ran away quick from it last decade. Not with the same CVT. It would have to be a new and improved version closer to what Honda has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Not with the same CVT. It would have to be a new and improved version closer to what Honda has. Well, obviously not with the same unit. But I would understand their hesitance to reintroduce such a transmission if they were indeed hesitant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Ford doesn't have the ability to Develop a CVT right now, it is out of Ford's core engineering expertise. As we all can see by the Ho hum performance of the 6F+EB10 combo, It simply cannot deliver competitive MPGs. I'd also challenge some of the Word of mouth statements about the decline of focus volume with some facts. The Quality of the Focus outside of the DCT has been Poor. The Rear Seat room has been well below class average. the interior Space has been called Cramped by some. Trunk space is poor. The car debuted in 2011 and is competing with much newer models with better Space, Reliability and performance, than the Focus faced in 2011. 2014 Corolla 278,742 +8% 2011 Civic 249,749 -1.5% 2011 Elantra 193,962 +19% 2010 Cruze 177,970 -14.5% 2011 Focus 163,864 -7% 2013 Sentra 154,270 +9% 2012 Impreza+WRX+XV 142,351 +20% 2014 Mazda3 82,300 +2.5% 2013 Dart 68,319 +12% 2012 Forte 63,300 +18% I would place the decline in sales only on the DCT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Ford doesn't have the ability to Develop a CVT right now, it is out of Ford's core engineering expertise. And yet, it developed an E-CVT from the 6F gearbox. I'm a little surprised that Ford hasn't done more with that gearbox and pressed on more with lower cost hybrid.. The Quality of the Focus outside of the DCT has been Poor. The Rear Seat room has been well below class average. the interior Space has been called Cramped by some. Trunk space is poor. The car debuted in 2011 and is competing with much newer models with better Space, Reliability and performance, than the Focus faced in 2011. And his was the global European Focus plenty had been asking for. Sure. it's outdated but you don't see Ford screaming off to quickly bash out a new design... the only thing it needs for uSA is EB 15. Edited October 8, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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