Tier2 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The contract wasn't that bad IMO, but they did not have a plan in place to sell it and they are learning the power of social media. If they reduce the grow in period to 4 years and give Tier 2 a bigger signing bonus. In addition to clearly explaining the product investments it would pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) The contract wasn't that bad IMO, but they did not have a plan in place to sell it and they are learning the power of social media. If they reduce the grow in period to 4 years and give Tier 2 a bigger signing bonus. In addition to clearly explaining the product investments it would pass. If you followed the whole thing on social media you would have read for every "vote no" post after the TA was released you would have counted two "strike, fuck the contract no matter what" posts before it was released. The deal was declined before it was even released, people trying to send a message. Edited October 1, 2015 by caustic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 If you followed the whole thing on social media you would have read for every "vote no" post after the TA was released you would have counted two "strike, fuck the contract no matter what" posts before it was released. The deal was declined before it was even released, people trying to send a message. That's the point if you have an open line of communication between members, whether it be on social media or in person, during the process it would reduce the hostility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 That's the point if you have an open line of communication between members, whether it be on social media or in person, during the process it would reduce the hostility. Open communication is irrelevant, FCA was a stupid target in the first place. 43% of their members were saying no as a fuck you to the UAW and FCA for years of pent up frustration. Unless they came out and said nee base pay is 20 and top out at 30 in four years no one was voting yes on shit. I hope FCA just fucked themselves and they move on to us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Open communication is irrelevant, FCA was a stupid target in the first place. 43% of their members were saying no as a fuck you to the UAW and FCA for years of pent up frustration. Unless they came out and said nee base pay is 20 and top out at 30 in four years no one was voting yes on shit. I hope FCA just fucked themselves and they move on to us. I don't want to see anybody get fucked and to say that is so fucking selfish. You couldn't be more wrong about the communication being irrelevant. If the 25% cap wasn't in the last contract that should have been discussed with the members prior to the TA released. I'm not in favor of a cap because theoretically someone could be in the bottom percentage for a long time, but that needed to be communicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I don't want to see anybody get fucked and to say that is so fucking selfish. He's referring to the company. They can't withstand a strike of any amount of time should it come to that You couldn't be more wrong about the communication being irrelevant. If the 25% cap wasn't in the last contract that should have been discussed with the members prior to the TA released. Stop the world, I actually agree with you for once. I'm not in favor of a cap because theoretically someone could be in the bottom percentage for a long time, but that needed to be communicated.How did you come to that conclusion, care to elaborate? It's simple attrition. Someone (or a group) at the top of the system-wide seniority list retires, then people are hired in at the bottom of the chain to replace them. Eventually you will get to tier 1. The problem with the current cap is that there's ways around that cap right now so the number of allowed tier 2 workers goes up. When I hired in in July 2013, the number of allowed entry level workers was around 11,500-12,000. Fast forward 2 years and that number is now pushing 16,000. If the union really wants to push this "clear path to tier 1" agenda, they need to start by having a hard cap that can't be manipulated so easily. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecountry Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The contract wasn't that bad IMO, but they did not have a plan in place to sell it and they are learning the power of social media. If they reduce the grow in period to 4 years and give Tier 2 a bigger signing bonus. In addition to clearly explaining the product investments it would pass. You are all about Tier 2 only getting shit from the contract, you talk about how Tier 2 needs to go away but in next breath you say give Tier 2 a bigger bonus, I say vote the damn contract in just to screw you!. Thank a 1st Tier for your job kid! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmco76 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Piss poor is the new norm for this company, I mean Union. Wake up people!! Quit fighting among yourselves and channel your energy into replacing these idiots that are running this Union. If the fore fathers, who fought and bled, acted like some of you, there would never have been a Union. Our wages and benefits are not going to bankrupt the company. What will, are the stupid decisions management makes each and everyday. How many of you have seen management look the other way when there is a quality issue on a vehicle and they ship it to a dealer anyway just to get their production number. Or a design flaw that a worker brings to the attention of management but is ignored. Members let take the fight to our leaders and then to mgt. and quit fighting among ourselves. All of our jobs and benefits depends on bringing a product that people want, can depend on, and afford. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 You are all about Tier 2 only getting shit from the contract, you talk about how Tier 2 needs to go away but in next breath you say give Tier 2 a bigger bonus, I say vote the damn contract in just to screw you!. Thank a 1st Tier for your job kid! You would be getting two 3% raises and two lump sum bonuses during the contract. What the hell else do you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 He's referring to the company. They can't withstand a strike of any amount of time should it come to that Stop the world, I actually agree with you for once. How did you come to that conclusion, care to elaborate? It's simple attrition. Someone (or a group) at the top of the system-wide seniority list retires, then people are hired in at the bottom of the chain to replace them. Eventually you will get to tier 1. The problem with the current cap is that there's ways around that cap right now so the number of allowed tier 2 workers goes up. When I hired in in July 2013, the number of allowed entry level workers was around 11,500-12,000. Fast forward 2 years and that number is now pushing 16,000. If the union really wants to push this "clear path to tier 1" agenda, they need to start by having a hard cap that can't be manipulated so easily. It would be that way if there was continuous hiring and members retiring, but it doesn't work that way. There was very little hiring done from 1999 to 2011. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be stuck in the bottom percentage for 10+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm about to be laid off again, what do I care about what percentage I'm in? At this point I'm not even sure I'll even be allowed to vote on the new contract. I wasn't allowed to participate in the strike authorization vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 In all seriousness, that's why it needs to be a hard cap, not this floating cap they currently have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 In all seriousness, that's why it needs to be a hard cap, not this floating cap they currently have. No cap, this was the thing I liked most about that TA. A cap still leaves people behind, which is bullshit IMHO. I'd rather see a better pay scale with no cap than 15-19 with a cap. You know fuckers don't like to retire, ever seen the DTP senority list? People don't retire at a rate fast enough for a cap to be beneficial for anyone except Ford Motors. No cap, better pay scale for "entry level" workers. Remember everything is up for this again in 4 years, there is zero promise anything stays as is, one can assume it will but technically isn't the case. I'd rather get tier 2 workers close to equal footing(all tier 2 not just those exceeding a bullshit cap) and then push for everyone equal across the board in 4 years. Easier to gain little bits over multiple contracts than in one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 In all seriousness, that's why it needs to be a hard cap, not this floating cap they currently have. Don't know how you would have a hard cap. As the number of jobs fluctuate, do does the percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Don't know how you would have a hard cap. As the number of jobs fluctuate, do does the percentage. Ok fair point. How about change the formula so it's harder to manipulate then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hee haw Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Don't know how you would have a hard cap. As the number of jobs fluctuate, do does the percentage. A cap is an upper limit on tier 2. I don't know the number of UAW members in assembly plants, but assume 50,000. A cap of 20 percent would be 10,000. Layoffs of the junior people would reduce the number of tier 2 and reduce the percentage. When they need more people hire tier 2 up to the 20 percent level and any more would require moving more people into tier 1. Remember, you are talking a CAP of tier 2, not a firm number, same as a sports team under a salary cap can only spend that much,but may spend less, same as tier 2 is a CAP not saying they must have the full 20 percent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downtime1 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 A cap is an upper limit on tier 2. I don't know the number of UAW members in assembly plants, but assume 50,000. A cap of 20 percent would be 10,000. Layoffs of the junior people would reduce the number of tier 2 and reduce the percentage. When they need more people hire tier 2 up to the 20 percent level and any more would require moving more people into tier 1. Remember, you are talking a CAP of tier 2, not a firm number, same as a sports team under a salary cap can only spend that much,but may spend less, same as tier 2 is a CAP not saying they must have the full 20 percent. FMC's cap is now 29% instead of what used to be 20%, they were somehow given an exemption which allowed that cap to be bumped up from 20% to 29%. Unsure of this reasoning behind the exemption because no one seems to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 FMC's cap is now 29% instead of what used to be 20%, they were somehow given an exemption which allowed that cap to be bumped up from 20% to 29%. Unsure of this reasoning behind the exemption because no one seems to know Ford's cap is 20% but plants like rawsonville and the like do not count towards it. I think the cap applies strictly to final assembly complexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Ford's cap is 20% but plants like rawsonville and the like do not count towards it. I think the cap applies strictly to final assembly complexes. Only Rawsonville and Sharonville are exempt from the cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axle72 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Sterling axle plant is also exempt... We r supposed to b 100% entry level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Only Rawsonville and Sharonville are exempt from the cap. It's more than that, and think about how many work there and at the company as a total. Parts plants could easily make 9% plus consider no one is set to be flipped until they figure out what to do with you guys that got moved from MAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 "Better job of selling" like Hillary Clinton and her celebrity status?Lipstick on a pig is still a pig! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-bert Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yeah vote Republican and lose the economy and lose ur jobs. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axle72 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yea the dems got r back don't they q.... Nafta tpp aca sure 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's more than that, and think about how many work there and at the company as a total. Parts plants could easily make 9% plus consider no one is set to be flipped until they figure out what to do with you guys that got moved from MAP. Yeah, about that. I wish they would do something about that already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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